[EWCP] EWCPcast 9/16/12 - Gender Diversity

[Nemo]

Originally Posted by XaulZan11

You guys need to stop doing the casts on Sunday during football season!

Robotics is my football!

[JaneYoung]

EWCP,

Thank you for taking on this topic. It's a good one.

Enjoy your discussion.

Jane

[Nick Lawrence]

I'm really looking forward to this cast. It's been a while.

-Nick

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by JaneYoung

EWCP,

Thank you for taking on this topic. It's a good one.

Enjoy your discussion.

Jane

I think you guys should get Jane on the cast! It wouldn't make any sense to do it without her.

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

I think you guys should get Jane on the cast! It wouldn't make any sense to do it without her.

The plan is to have a series of casts along these lines, we will investigate if Jane's experiences meet with the question we are trying to answer for any future casts. This guest list has been set for a couple weeks now.

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber

The plan is to have a series of casts along these lines, we will investigate if Jane's experiences meet with the question we are trying to answer for any future casts. This guest list has been set for a couple weeks now.

No need to investigate, Andrew. I'm perfectly happy just to follow along.

Thanks for that comment, Adam. That was quite a surprise!

Jane

[thefro526]

Cast notes are available here.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...0Qc/edit?pli=1

Relevant Comic available here.

http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=1883

[Andrew Schreiber]

The recording has started.
<Guest 22> Is there a way to tell who is currently speaking?
<Guest 23> Not that I know of
<schreiaj> no, it's something I've always wanted
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<schreiaj> https://docs.google.com/document/d/18ens2k2KqifSeXFj71iRzc5w0Pgr2LZiZlH_IrfX0Qc/edit once again, cast notes
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<Guest 20> http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=1883
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<swan217> Some food for thought: http://www.good.is/posts/girls-who-code-graduates-its-first-class/
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<thefro526> FYI, I just dropped the comic link into the thread on CD.
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<SabreBytes772> isn't everyone's meetings run differently? just saying
<Guest 22> On 11 we have a very high percentage of girls relative to other teams, and a lot of them are leaders.
<SabreBytes772> we have a Girl as our team captain. Same as last year :P
<Guest 32> on 2949 all of the girls work on the robot
<GCentola1126> No love for PR 
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<Guest 20> it's true
<Guest 22> we dont have to push anything, girls do what they are interested in, same with boys
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<SabreBytes772> Do you still push for them to help on both sides even if they are specifically on the mechanical or PR section??
<Guest 32> ^same
<Guest 20> That's awesome!!
<Guest 32> well, we have to push everyone to make buttons and such :P
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<SabreBytes772> well thats cause they're buttons lol
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<Guest 32> ture that
<Guest 31> does it become a balance of how to push people to jobs that others would be glad to take?
<Guest 22> We encourage that everyone try everything, but once they have tried it all and know what they like, everyone finds their niche
<Guest 32> some ppl only do mechanical, and some only do PR/Media stuff
<thefro526> I made buttons when I was a freshman and sophmore, it was a neat break the usual
<Guest 32> but it doesnt really have to do with girls vs. boys
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<Guest 31> or lost any grants?
<alecmataloni111> 254 sure doesn't lose any awards...
<Guest 32> we never got going to single gender because we dont want to limit who can join the team. we're a community team and we're all about spreading FIRST.
<thefro526> Mataloni, same thought passed through my mind.
<alecmataloni111> D
<Guest 32> limiting the team to a single gender just doesnt make much sense to me
<SabreBytes772> some girls from SWAT should have joined it :P
<BrendanB> depends on what award and some judges ask specific questions about girls on the team.
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<SabreBytes772> joined in*
<schreiaj> 32, that's what we are talking about, what are the benefits to doing it different ways.
<schreiaj> There are benefits and drawbacks to both approaches
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<Guest 22> I couldnt imagine a good reason to specifically exclude any group from a team, especially by gender.
<Guest 31> you could argue that the world of science is co-ed, why shouldn't FIRST be?
<thefro526> You could argue that the world of science and work is co-ed, but then you'd have to research why it's so weighted towards men.
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<SabreBytes772> when the school is a All Girls school, or all boys school thats why they have only Girls or Boys on their team. Or if its cause of Girl Guides
<schreiaj> I don't know what the benefits are, that's part of why we wanted to do this series of casts
<Guest 20> And the interesting thing about the Girls of Steel is that we are not from an all-girls school, but from 20ish schools from around Pittsburgh.
<Guest 32> i agree with 22
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<Guest 32> well yeah, unless youre specifically through a single gender school, becaue then you dont have a choice
<Guest 22> I actually love when people call our robot mentor built. If someone thinks our student built robot was built by mentors, I take it as a major
<SabreBytes772> You never know, maybe its against school policy to have the other gender on the team. If that school is a One Gender school
<Guest 22> compliment
<thefro526> 22, I know that feel.
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<BrendanB> I think a whole other aspect of co ed vs single gender is if the team is organized outside of a single gender school.
<Guest 22> anyone else lagging? I cant here anything...
<Guest 22> hear*
<SabreBytes772> not me
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<Guest 31> how do you "empower" girls on a coed team?
<Guest 39> .
<Guest 31> YES. answer the question!
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<BrendanB> ^treat them just like the guys and if you feel like they are getting pushed to the side bring them in
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<Guest 39> Guest 22, Sam Mills, Co-Captain of FRC 11, is now Guest 39.
<Kaaatie> I agree with Brendan
<SabreBytes772> they brought they're girl friends...?
<BrendanB> its how i got our only girls on the team into mechanical this year.
<SabreBytes772> Sam, I just added you on Fb.
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<BrendanB> some girls want to do stuff but they won't express that interest you have to give them the opportunity and say, "hey can you help me make this part"
<thefro526> Sam, chat me on FB when you get a minute
<Guest 39> ok
<SabreBytes772> all day erre day
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<ahill1625> much more manly than sleepovers
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<BrendanB> ^who sleeps at male get together?
<thefro526> Aren, I'm fairly sure there is no sleeping during an all night CAD session, so it's not a sleepover.
<ahill1625> precisely
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<BrendanB> is that how you came up with 6wd swerve? through an all night cad session.
<Guest 39> My all night CAD sessions get lonely...
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<SabreBytes772> ^
<GCentola1126> everyone comes up with crazy ideas at late night sessions
<Guest 20> lol
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<SabreBytes772> 1% Nick Lawrence
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<schreiaj> ^ dropping squares err'day
<Guest 39> haha shreiai
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<SabreBytes772> I feel like theres more Girls on canadian teams than American teams? just thinking that though, no idea
<BrendanB> ^interesting
<Guest 39> I think it is regional. In the northeastern US, there are a lot of girls at least. I dont know as much about other areas
<Leeland1405> Why do you think that Aaron?
<SabreBytes772> I see more Girls at Canadian regionals than at american regional's it seems. :P
<BrendanB> how many american regionals have you been to?
<LizSmith> I think its about the same at American/Canadian regionals from what I've seen.
<SabreBytes772> we had 10 girls on our team last year (2012), 13 boys. 4 of those girls were leaders.
<Leeland1405> Hm. Interesting. It may just be the regions.
<SabreBytes772> We go to a lot of american regional's. we're right on the border
<BrendanB> I think it depends on region. Up here in NH there are a number of girls, but i'd still say 70-30 split is the average.
<BrendanB> Aaron could it be since there are more all girls team in canada like SWAT and Waldo?
<Leeland1405> That's what I was thinking Brendan
<SabreBytes772> those are the only two All girl teams (to my knowledge atleast), but maybe :P
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<Leeland1405> Canada also only has 4 existing regionals. Two all girls teams cover a lot of space, I would presume.
<BrendanB> well if two of the teams at my regional went all girls i'd notice
<SabreBytes772> 5 now 
<Guest 39> Yes there is favoritism for girls by mentors on our team.
<SabreBytes772> wait! there's 3 but i dont remember which team.
<Leeland1405> Well, yeah. But that one hasn't come to exist yet, so you can't observe the ratio there 
<SabreBytes772> lol yea :P
<ahill1625> also obligatory go neutrinos
<BrendanB> And of those teams they are mostly just at GTR and waterloo.
<thefro526> Neutrinos?
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<thefro526> CIM Motor In Swerve?
<thefro526> They awesome.
<BrendanB> hahah lets just put this extremely large cim in the wheel.
<SabreBytes772> lol
<Guest 39> CIM motor in swerve for a rookie team = double awesome
<ahill1625> $@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@# dustin, stop diverting to that
<SabreBytes772> and 2056 and 1114 both have/had Female drivers
<SabreBytes772> 1114's graduated. 2056's is still there for next year 
<BrendanB> 1519 had female drive team this year
<BrendanB> they had the best on the field record
<BrendanB> in 8 years
<LizSmith> Right, but that's 1/4 of the drive team.. that's still only 25%
<SabreBytes772> -.-
<SabreBytes772> its just an observation I've made :P
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<thefro526> Interestingly enough, I found female drivers the most difficult to drive against.
<gregor_907> I don't think there should be pride in having an all girl drive team, or an all boy drive team.
<SabreBytes772> ^ thats cause they always get their way 
<BrendanB> ^dustin yes!
<Guest 39> neither do I
<thefro526> There's a difference in speed and style that's hard to adjust to.
<LizSmith> Yeah Aaron, but if it's like... "hey there's a girl on the field", i think there still is a lack of female representation
<thefro526> Mind you, I drove in 2009 which was a 'drivers game'
<BrendanB> I think girls make better drivers because they can be a lot calmer than the males and if they are really good friends they are even better.
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<thefro526> Definitely Brendan.
<Leeland1405> I find driver skill to be gender neutral. I've seen good male drivers and good female drivers, and I've seen bad male drivers and bad female drivers.
<BrendanB> we had like 5 matches against 1519's female drivers this season and i noticed it and when we were with them they were almost silent.
<SabreBytes772> hey, i'm calm. lol 
but yea i do agree. they probably listen to their Coach more too
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<schreiaj> Mentors do as little as possible? I'm all for that. Gimme my pillow and my drink, I'll be in my chair!
<Guest 39> I disagree with girls being better drivers, I think it all depends on the drive team's dynamic.
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<SabreBytes772> maybe we're all over thnking this...
<Guest 19> Just a quick question, is she saying Justin?
<BrendanB> ^true but i think it is case to case. I preferred when we had a female on our drive team because the mood immediately changed
<Guest 39> I also think it really doesnt matter what people say about your robot
<BrendanB> I've driven with a girl and it was easier than with a guy.
<thefro526> She's saying Justin.
<thefro526> < Is Dustin.
<SabreBytes772> we had a female Human player :P
<BrendanB> aaron that doesn't count.
<Leeland1405> But was that because she was a girl or because she was a good driver?
<BrendanB> both.
<andybaker45> roboettes electrical wiring is awesome
<GCentola1126> I'm with leeland. It really depends on the dynamic of the Drive Team.
<BrendanB> looking at her record she is a good driver (like 6 event wins) but she is extremely humble and great at communication.
<Nick816> I also want to say i think girls have much more patience than guys do
<Guest 39> Does anyone know if 433 is all girls?
<andybaker45> I have used them as examples of "what to do" as an inspector, showing other teams
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<BrendanB> i'm not saying a guy can't have those attributes, I have just found them more prevalent in females.
<JonStratis> Andy, I'm going to have to take a screenshot here to show the team 
<LizSmith> 433 is all girls
<Guest 20> @Nick816 -- at least with the Girls of Steel, that's not true. xD
<SabreBytes772> I think girls will forget about the last match (if they lost) and just focus on the current match to
<Leeland1405> Patience is a virtue that either gender can possess. And there are those on both gender who have and lack it. I think it's a personal thing.
<Leeland1405> Not a gender thing
<Guest 20> agreed
<andybaker45> heh, you go right ahead, Jon
<Guest 39> 75 is Co-Ed and they dont sit down for the whole competition.
<Guest 39> They have crazy spirit
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<Guest 39> all throughout
<Leeland1405> That's funny. Garrick and I are girls then 
<GCentola1126> haha
<thefro526> 433 is all female students for whoever asked.
<thefro526> they have some male mentors
<JosephC_68> Our lead chassis/CAD this year is a girl.
<GCentola1126> To get girls to do PR/marketing, we would have to have people interested in PR/Marketing
<GCentola1126> (on 1126)
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<Leeland1405> 1126 has to fight to get people to do promotional stuff; on the boy and girl side. We had a single girl in 2010 and 2011 who actually wanted to do it.
<thefro526> < barely weighs enough to use a drill.
<ahill1625> dustin a pencil
<gregor_907> ^^^
<BrendanB> hahha dustin!
<LizSmith> Garrick/Leeland... you should have asked me for help. 
<Guest 39> haha I dont know if i beleive that
<Kaaatie> <couldn't handle the kick-back of a mig welder her first time using it
<thefro526> < stronger than Andrew.
<Guest 20> hahah
<SabreBytes772> Gregor, your barely tall enough to reach the table to pick up the drill...
<Leeland1405> LIZ HELP 1126! 
<BrendanB> <could stand on an arbor press and it won't do sqat.
<GCentola1126> LEELAND HELP 1126!
<Leeland1405> Lol no thanks 
<ahill1625> when i was a freshman i stood on a stool next to a mill to be able to change tools and use it
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<SabreBytes772> ahah we brought a stool for my fellow driver when he first started.
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<Leeland1405> You small people amuse me with your stories of inadequate mass and height 
<BrendanB> hahha
<BrendanB> its not inadequate! its a feature when it comes time to crate the robot!
<ahill1625> happily that was 8" and 80lbs ago
<Guest 16> why is this even an issue
<SabreBytes772> crating the robot was so last year... no need to be short anymore than lol
<Leeland1405> 1126 once joked of sending a then freshman electrician to the competition in the crate with the robot.
<andybaker45> agreed, 16
<GCentola1126> Leeland, your size is invalid. You are too giant.
<SabreBytes772> ^^!
<Guest 39> triple agreed
<Guest 38> ^^^ what 16 and i have been talking about this whole time
<Kaaatie> Wait, what is 16 asking?
<SabreBytes772> OH MY GOD! KICK-OFF IS WILDSTANG DAYS AWAY!!!!!
<andybaker45> I assumed that 16 was asking about why is size of the person an issue
<BrendanB> ^gah we need to train freshman
<Kaaatie> gotcha
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<thefro526> Anyone that knows me, knows that I have an awkward build, and there are instances where I'm not physically strong enough to use some tools.
<Guest 16> well the weight as well, but the guy/girl issue. Not all guys are interested in cars/electronics/ect, same with girls. If their intersted they'll show
<Guest 16> it
<thefro526> It happens with younger guys and girls all the time.
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<BrendanB> Thankfully i'm not as tall as fro.
<Guest 3> I wish i was about a in shorter at my job now the basment has some pipes that like to give my migrains
<SabreBytes772> can you read that again??
<Guest 39> This is FRC
<JonStratis> I'll post the quotes on the thread on CD for anyone who is interested
<Guest 39> I think 90% of us dont have the physical build we would like
<JonStratis> They're a mouthful 
<BrendanB> i don't think anyone has the phsical build we want
<andybaker45> One person that I encourage any of you to talk about this with would be Kate Pilotte. she has a pretty strong opinion about this subject.
<SabreBytes772> I actually injured my shoulder this year because I was designing too much... So no I dont like how I'm built ahha
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<Guest 14> Thanks Andy I'll PM you to get her information
<anlb4h> I appreciate the discussion. THANKS!
<andybaker45> she is a fairly public person, manager of the Kit of Parts at FIRST
<JosephC_68> Great discussion guys
<andybaker45> Kate is on GDC, engineering staff at FRC
The recording has ended.

[Jon Stratis]

During the chat, I read a couple of quotes the team has collected. For those who want, here they are:

From a second grader who saw the team compete:

I like the Robettes and I think what they are doing is cool. I go to their website a lot. I like looking at the pictures of what they are. Last year my dad, he is a medical engineer at HCMC, took me and my sister to see the Robettes compete. I really liked the soccer game and the area where they did the building. I like building things. I build a lot of things at my house. When I was little, like five or six, I thought building things was boyish. When I saw the Robettes I just changed my mind.

From the grandmother of one of our current captains:

My granddaughter is a member of the Robettes. I grew up in the era (1950’s) where women who attended college could be teachers or
nurses. These were the only career paths offered to women. I choose business administration and to major in finance and accounting. I was the only woman in most of my classes for 4 years and I actually had professors ask why I was taking classes in those majors. I am thrilled to see a program that offers girls a chance to compete in a science and technological fields, to make it possible for them to aspire to careers in math, science and engineering, something unheard of in my day. Our country cannot realize it’s true potential when 50% of the students (women) are left out of the most promising fields of advancement.

From the parent of a former team member:

My daughter, Kate, was quite shy and quiet when she first attended Visitation freshman year. She asked if I could take her to the Robotics informational meeting that fall. After listening to the presentation, she was scared of joining, worried about the time commitment, and she also didn't know what she would bring to the team. During the summer between freshman and sophomore year, Kate and several friends all decided to join the Robettes together. Kate joined the programming team and took computer programming that year, eventually going on to take AP computer science. Kate also became a leader on the team and was elected captain her senior year. Kate's experience on the Robettes has inspired her to win a National Aspirations in Computing award from NCWIT.I have watched the Robettes allow my daughter to grow, teach, and inspire others to learn to program. I think that joining the Robettes has been the most significant event that has allowed Kate to develop as a young woman and leader.

From another student of the team:

They have inspired me to try new activities that I thought only boys could do. The Robettes encourage me to try new things and break down barriers. Also, they have taught me that it is cool to like math and science and that engineering is fun.

From a teacher at the school:

■ I continue to be impressed by the girls who make up the Robettes team. Their robots are always among the most attractive and smooth-running in the competitions I have seen. In addition, the girls seem truly committed to working together as a team, and their captains speak so eloquently to the student body about their progress and their achievements. I also love that the Robettes seem to pull from a wide cross-section of students: quiet girls, talkative girls, girls who are good in math and science, girls who are stretching themselves to try something new, girls who are natural leaders, and girls who know how to join a team and contribute their all to make success a reality. I continue to be impressed by the Robettes and hope that my daughter joins them someday should she choose to attend vis.

[Taylor]

Originally Posted by thefro526;1185871Relevant Comic available here.

[URL="http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=1883"

http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=1883[/url]

Also

[Katie_UPS]

Originally Posted by Taylor

Also

Exactly why all-girls teams feel en extra pressure to succeed.

[Jon Stratis]

I also want to take this opportunity to thank Renee and Katie for inviting me onto the podcast.

One thing that didn't make the cast that I just thought of... As an adult male, joining the team 6 years ago was actually pretty intimidating. Myself and some friends I worked with went to an informational session to learn about FIRST mentoring in general, thinking we'd find a team and join there. During a break halfway through, we were approached by the teacher starting the team, who noticed that one of us had a Boston Scientific shirt on, the team's primary sponsor. She basically begged us to join the team, otherwise she would have no mentors and would have to cancel the season. We were all a little hesitant, and she basically strong armed us into it.

It was the best decision I ever made, and it's really changed my outlook on students in engineering. Participating in this podcast about my experiences over the past 6 years was really a great privilege, and I'm glad I could help!

[thefro526]

I'd like to thank Renee, Katie, Justin, Jon and Jaden for being on the cast tonight.

Renee and Katie really spearheaded this Cast, the usual EWCP folk had very little to do with anything other than providing the place to talk. I hope that everyone found it as informative and interesting as I did.

[pwnageNick]

Quote:
Originally Posted by thefro526;1185871Relevant Comic available here.

[url="http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=1883"
http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=1883[/url]
Also

I find that interesting, because in all of my math classes the girls tended to do better then the guys... that probably had something to do with us not focusing during class...

-Nick

[alb4h]

Jon wrote:

snip....

It was the best decision I ever made, and it's really changed my outlook on students in engineering. Participating in this podcast about my experiences over the past 6 years was really a great privilege, and I'm glad I could help![/quote]

Jon - have you written anything about how it's changed your outlook? If so, I'd love to read it!

Ann