2013 Greater Toronto East Regional

[jspatz1]

Not saying that they have the guarantee, only that they designed for the opportunity. I suppose it is possible that 1114 completely missed the importance of floor loading, and decided to just forfeit any extra auton points. ( eye roll)

[Jay O'Donnell]

Originally Posted by lemiant

But they have no way of guaranteeing that they are in the same division. In fact in 75% of cases they are in different divisions. That's what makes collusion implausible.

Well the thing is they don't necessarily need to have 2056, just a robot with similar capabilities as them.

[Kpchem]

Originally Posted by Jay Money 1058

Well the thing is they don't necessarily need to have 2056, just a robot with similar capabilities as them.

Yes. But when was the last time 1114 built a robot that was designed in such a way that, in order to be effective, they require their alliance partner's to have other certain characteristics? Generally 1114 builds the robot that does everything, and then selects robots that complement them nicely. It almost seems like this year 1114 has put themselves into a situation where they're going to need their partner to fill the design gaps they weren't able to achieve, instead of the other way around.

Also, it says a lot about the consistency of 1114 as a team when we're sitting here wondering why they don't have a robot that can do everything after being amazed by the robots that can.

[Jay O'Donnell]

Originally Posted by Kpchem

Yes. But when was the last time 1114 built a robot that was designed in such a way that, in order to be effective, they require their alliance partner's to have other certain characteristics? Generally 1114 builds the robot that does everything, and then selects robots that complement them nicely. It almost seems like this year 1114 has put themselves into a situation where they're going to need their partner to fill the design gaps they weren't able to achieve, instead of the other way around.

Also, it says a lot about the consistency of 1114 as a team when we're sitting here wondering why they don't have a robot that can do everything after being amazed by the robots that can.

This is true, they are still putting up insane points without 2056, so they are in good shape. I'll put it to you this way, most teams in FIRST would gladly take 1114's robot right now.

[Bochek]

A high score of 182 was just put down by 2056, 4343 and 2852
http://www.watchfirstnow.com/archive.php?id=61365086

[jspatz1]

Originally Posted by lemiant

But they have no way of guaranteeing that they are in the same division. In fact in 75% of cases they are in different divisions. That's what makes collusion implausible.

"Collusion" is an inappropriate choice of word here and was not the gist of my comments. It is a bold strategy with risks and will be fasciniting to watch play out. They are hoping to meet opportunity with preparation, which is smart for anyone to do.

[Paul Copioli]

Guys,

I can guarantee that 1114 and 2056 did not make complimentary robots on purpose.

If I know the guys on 1114 (and I do ... very well), they did an analysis based on opportunity cost and did a value based analysis, including the probability of how many teams can pull off the 30 point hang.

What you are seeing is exactly what some of us expected. Early events will be dominated by auton + floor load, but that will change as the season progresses...at least that is the theory. Math supports this claim.

Paul

[engunneer]

Originally Posted by Bochek

A high score of 182 was just put down by 2056, 4343 and 2852
http://www.watchfirstnow.com/archive.php?id=61365086

That 182 included massive penalties.

Match 26, however... 143-25... 2056's alliance had 60 in Autonomous alone. I think we know who first seed will be. That's an impressive bit of robot.

Really enjoying the webcast and the music variety!

[rick.oliver]

Originally Posted by Paul Copioli

Guys,

I can guarantee that 1114 and 2056 did not make complimentary robots on purpose.

If I know the guys on 1114 (and I do ... very well), they did an analysis based on opportunity cost and did a value based analysis, including the probability of how many teams can pull off the 30 point hang.

What you are seeing is exactly what some of us expected. Early events will be dominated by auton + floor load, but that will change as the season progresses...at least that is the theory. Math supports this claim.

Paul

I agree; happy accident. I don't know either team the way Paul knows them. I suspect that they both performed an analysis of the game and came to their conclusions. Both are very competitive ... again. Neither relies on an alliance partner to be effective; that is, either can play the game very effectively.

The floor loading advantage in auton (24 points) offsets the additional points for climbing to level 3.

I think 2056 evaluated the game very well and delivered an excellent machine which executes a very effective strategy. Well done 2056.

[tim-tim]

Originally Posted by rick.oliver

I agree; happy accident. I don't know either team the way Paul knows them. I suspect that they both performed an analysis of the game and came to their conclusions. Both are very competitive ... again. Neither relies on an alliance partner to be effective; that is, either can play the game very effectively.

The floor loading advantage in auton (24 points) offsets the additional points for climbing to level 3.

I think 2056 evaluated the game very well and delivered an excellent machine which executes a very effective strategy. Well done 2056.

I also think 1114 has executed a great strategy. This year may be one of the first years where there is a drastic difference in Regional level and Championship level strategies that drive robot design.

Don't get me wrong, 2056 has a great design and will be very successful this year; however, I think 1114 is built for a higher caliber of competition/alliance members. By Einstein, I suspect most teams will be shooting 85-90% if not higher. How many discs will really be available on the ground? Yes, auto floor pickup is great and is needed on an alliance, but not every robot needs that capability.

The ability to climb to 30, and what appears to be a setup for the 20point dump, will be much more valuable in the end. Not to mention they are a corner climber so this doesn't really impose any limitations on what other 30pt climber is on their alliance.

Yes, 2056 will steal the regional competitions. But I suspect 1114 to be a much more valuable asset to an alliance on Einstein.

Just my thoughts.

[PayneTrain]

This slow-motion intro... Canada is rubbing their match cycle efficiency in our faces

Good job, regional staff and teams!

[Gregor]

Purely based on my observations, top 4 robots are 2056, 1114, 1241, and 4343, in that order.

2056 has a 7 disk auto, and only floor loading.

1114 has only human loading, and a fast 30 point climb, although inconsistant so far.

1241 has a wicked fast shooter, and fast cycle times, although they were having drivetrain issues early on.

4343 is a consistant 18 point auto, 3-4 cycle shooter, and 10 point hanger. Nothing fast, but super consistant.

[rick.oliver]

Originally Posted by tim-tim

... Yes, 2056 will steal the regional competitions. But I suspect 1114 to be a much more valuable asset to an alliance on Einstein. ...

Agree both are excellent executions of excellent strategies. I expect that 2056 will not only dominate the Regional fields, they will also dominate their Division at the Championship event.

Unless of course there is a machine that delivers a seven disc autonomous, a fast 30 point climb with a 20 point dump and four or five 12 point cycles in between.

I congratulate both teams on their achievements.

[Saberbot]

Originally Posted by lemiant

But they have no way of guaranteeing that they are in the same division. In fact in 75% of cases they are in different divisions. That's what makes collusion implausible.

Yes, but they aren't necessarily dependent on each other just robots with the same skill sets. They chose to perfect their respective skills because the flexibility of a robot with a lot of mediocre skills is less necessary when they are able to form a well rounded alliance out of "cream of the crop" specialized robots at champs.,

[JM033]

How big is the penalty for holding more than 4 discs at a time in teleop?