2013 Pine Tree Regional

[esquared]

Originally Posted by Flak-Bait

Careful with the Akido rolls Eric!

Leaving in three hours- so excited!

I still have 3 good ligaments left and 2 events, so I should be fine

[BrendanB]

Can't wait for tomorrow! Our team has made good use of our 30lbs, if you saw us at GSR you are in for a surprise!

[kstl99]

After 1 day of competition I must say this is the best regional I have attended.

Congratulations to rookie team 4793, the Gobotics from Old Orchid Beach. Maine. They have a mostly wooden robot that looks really nice, drives well, has a 1 point dumper, a 10 point climber and plays good defense. It was built by 2 students and one mentor, although they are up to 3 students now. Their entire team is on the field during their matches. I was very happy to see them win the Rookie Inspiration award.

[AutoPilot2020]

Does anyone know what the illegal component on a robot in the red alliance was? I'm unable to watch on line.

[PVCpirate]

I heard that they had pre charged their pneumatic system because their on board compressor wasn't working, so they had to let out the air.

[ehfeinberg]

Originally Posted by PVCpirate

I heard that they had pre charged their pneumatic system because their on board compressor wasn't working, so they had to let out the air.

But aren't you allowed to do that? (R80, R81)
R80 Blue box

The intent of this rule is to permit teams to take advantage of the weight savings associated with keeping the compressor off-board. However, using the compressor off-board of the ROBOT does NOT permit non-compliance with any other applicable rules.

The compressor may be mounted on the ROBOT, or it may be left off the ROBOT and used to pre-charge compressed air in storage tanks on the ROBOT prior to bringing the ROBOT onto the FIELD.

[Nuttyman54]

Originally Posted by ehfeinberg

But aren't you allowed to do that? (R80, R81)
R80 Blue box

The assumption is that if their on-board compressor is not working, they used a different compressor to fill the tanks, which is not allowed.

[Gregor]

Originally Posted by ehfeinberg

But aren't you allowed to do that? (R80, R81)
R80 Blue box

Not if they also have an on-board compressor. The rules specify one compressor.

R80
Compressed air on the ROBOT must be provided by one and only one compressor. Compressor specifications may not exceed nominal 12VDC, 1.05 cfm flow rate. Off-board compressors must be controlled and powered by the ROBOT.

[bduddy]

Originally Posted by Gregor

Not if they also have an on-board compressor. The rules specify one compressor.

Maybe I'm "lawyering" this rule a bit too much, but IMO it doesn't say that they can only have one compressor, just that only one compressor may supply air.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by bduddy

Maybe I'm "lawyering" this rule a bit too much, but IMO it doesn't say that they can only have one compressor, just that only one compressor may supply air.

One and only one may supply air. That one may be located either on-board or off-board. If they had removed the on-board compressor from the system somehow, then I think they would have been perfectly fine (provided that R86 was met). If they did not, then there exists the possibility that it could turn on during the match, thus supplying air, thus having two compressors supplying air to the same system during the same match, though at two different times, thus potentially creating a rather nasty rules debate if the team gets called on violating a robot rule (and thus not passing inspection, see T06 for the aftermath).

[Gregor]

Originally Posted by EricH

One and only one may supply air. That one may be located either on-board or off-board. If they had removed the on-board compressor from the system somehow, then I think they would have been perfectly fine (provided that R86 was met). If they did not, then there exists the possibility that it could turn on during the match, thus supplying air, thus having two compressors supplying air to the same system during the same match, though at two different times, thus potentially creating a rather nasty rules debate if the team gets called on violating a robot rule (and thus not passing inspection, see T06 for the aftermath).

Now that I read the rule again, I'm not convinced. R80 prevents compressed air from being provided from multiple compressors, it does not prevent the potential for air to be provided from multiple compressors. I know this is essentially impossible to enforce, but as the rule is written, you could have an offboard and an onboard compressoras long as only one was used, assuming all other rules are met (which is sounds like they weren't, in this case).

Footnote: If this isn't lawyering the rules, I don't know what is.

[ehfeinberg]

Originally Posted by Gregor

Now that I read the rule again, I'm not convinced. R80 prevents compressed air from being provided from multiple compressors, it does not prevent the potential for air to be provided from multiple compressors. I know this is essentially impossible to enforce, but as the rule is written, you could have an offboard and an onboard compressoras long as only one was used, assuming all other rules are met (which is sounds like they weren't, in this case).

Footnote: If this isn't lawyering the rules, I don't know what is.

I am pretty sure this is the correct interpretation. In 2011, 449 had two identical (and both 100% legal) pneumatic systems, one on the robot and one off the robot. Before every match we would use our off-board pneumatic system to precharge the storage tanks on the robot. All the inspectors seemed fine with this, and we used this technique through 2 different competitions. The inspectors just required that they could inspect both boards to make sure that they would both be legal if they were on the robot.

However, the 2011 wording is different from the 2013 wording, and it is always up to the Inspector on whether you can or can't do this.

[Gregor]

Originally Posted by ehfeinberg

I am pretty sure this is the correct interpretation. In 2011, 449 had two identical (and both 100% legal) pneumatic systems, one on the robot and one off the robot. Before every match we would use our off-board pneumatic system to precharge the storage tanks on the robot. All the inspectors seemed fine with this, and we used this technique through 2 different competitions. The inspectors just required that they could inspect both boards to make sure that they would both be legal if they were on the robot.

However, the 2011 wording is different from the 2013 wording, and it is always up to the Inspector on whether you can or can't do this.

If you then used the on board compressor during the match, it would be illegal. R80 only permits air from one source.

[TedG]

Originally Posted by EricH

One and only one may supply air. That one may be located either on-board or off-board. If they had removed the on-board compressor from the system somehow, then I think they would have been perfectly fine (provided that R86 was met). If they did not, then there exists the possibility that it could turn on during the match, thus supplying air, thus having two compressors supplying air to the same system during the same match, though at two different times, thus potentially creating a rather nasty rules debate if the team gets called on violating a robot rule (and thus not passing inspection, see T06 for the aftermath).

I believe this is the correct intent of the rule. If you pre-charge a system before a match with a different compressor and have the ability to add compressed air during a match, that's an advantage over other teams.

Originally Posted by ehfeinberg

I am pretty sure this is the correct interpretation. In 2011, 449 had two identical (and both 100% legal) pneumatic systems, one on the robot and one off the robot. Before every match we would use our off-board pneumatic system to precharge the storage tanks on the robot. All the inspectors seemed fine with this, and we used this technique through 2 different competitions. The inspectors just required that they could inspect both boards to make sure that they would both be legal if they were on the robot.

However, the 2011 wording is different from the 2013 wording, and it is always up to the Inspector on whether you can or can't do this.

We never use pnumatics so I don't know all the rules, but I'm surprised they let you get away with that. What ever happened to the stored energy rule such as not having compressed springs, coils, surgical tubing? Isn't compressed air the same thing?

**Edit, just read more of the posts, apparently you can have a pre-charged air tank as long as it was filled by a compressor powered and controlled by the robot.

[PVCpirate]

I think it has to be powered by the robot, and it wasn't. This is a secondhand account I heard from someone on the winning alliance, so I'm not really sure.