Lack of Prior Knowledge

[ThatHat]

Originally Posted by LeelandS

Before the "mature" brainstorming session, we open up the floor for ridiculous ideas. We openly tell the students (and mentors) to throw out any over-the-top ideas they can think of. One students suggested strapping a rocket to the back of the robot and just driving up the side of the pyramid.

The reason we have team members throw out these ideas is that the most ridiculous ideas can have just a bit of brilliance in them. We thought about that student's suggestion and thought... "Why can't we just drive up the side?" This led us to brainstorming, prototyping, and designing a climbing system very similar to 118's mechanism from their reveal video. We had the system mostly ready to go before abandoning it. We're just not a team with the resources to make it work.

Don't discount the ridiculous suggestions. I guarantee, one of the "legendary" teams got their first incredible design off of a "dumb" suggestion. Just remind students that when the time to work comes, to be focused on the task. Once they've been properly introduced into the program and understand that this is the one time where adding flamethrowers and buzzsaws doesn't solve your problems, things should simmer down. But NEVER toss out the ridiculous suggestions.

I agree with this. I grew up with Odyssey of the Mind and there we had to come up with the most ridiculous ideas, because the emphasis was on crazy and creative ways to complete the task (2011-2012 Ooh-Motional Vehicle: build a vehicle that travels a course and displays human emotions).

My OM team was taught to start brainstorming with the most ridiculous and insane ideas, write them down, and draw lines connecting ideas that inspired each other. After we stopped laughing we would go through the list and narrow down the most feasible and appropriate solutions. We found the first part to be more helpful than we thought, because we went back to our old brainstorming sheets and saw that a lot of our best ideas were spawned from the craziest ones.

I admit that this is not necessarily the best process for FRC, but I vehemently abhor discarding ideas because they are "dumb" or "stupid". I feel that it sends the wrong message and is against the spirit of science and engineering. You can see throughout history that great inventions came from both mundane and fantastical inspirations (velcro, cell phones, among others). It's wrong to scuttle someone else's boat because you don't think it's seaworthy. You probably don't know that what you were seeing will be called a submarine, and you never know what new submerged continent, sunken civilization, or new species they will discover.

[Roger]

Get it out of their system at the beginning?

[MichaelBick]

Originally Posted by ThatHat

I admit that this is not necessarily the best process for FRC, but I vehemently abhor discarding ideas because they are "dumb" or "stupid". I feel that it sends the wrong message and is against the spirit of science and engineering. You can see throughout history that great inventions came from both mundane and fantastical inspirations (velcro, cell phones, among others). It's wrong to scuttle someone else's boat because you don't think it's seaworthy. You probably don't know that what you were seeing will be called a submarine, and you never know what new submerged continent, sunken civilization, or new species they will discover.

I agree that discarding ideas is a terrible idea. One good example of an idea I wish we hadn't discarding was lifting up the whole robot to push down the bridge instead of using a mechanism to do so. While this wouldn't have worked for the bridge, some notable teams used it as a fast way to get over the bump(254, 971, 111, and I'm sure others). Furthermore it allowed them to keep their bumpers low which has both offensive and defensive advantages.

Some notable robots have been created from out of the box ideas. The 71 2002 robot is utterly dominant from what I have heard(even though I wasn't around at that time. The 469 2010 robot was also very dominant while using a very out of the box idea. Thinking creatively is definitely very important in the brainstorming stage.

[R.C.]

Originally Posted by MICHAELABICK

Some notable robots have been created from out of the box ideas. The 71 2002 robot is utterly dominant from what I have heard(even though I wasn't around at that time. The 469 2009 robot was also very dominant while using a very out of the box idea. Thinking creatively is definitely very important in the brainstorming stage.

2010 right? Not 2009?

-RC

[MichaelBick]

Originally Posted by R.C.

2010 right? Not 2009?

-RC

Correct. I edited my original post

[DonRotolo]

Originally Posted by Rosiebotboss

Three letters..... FLL.

Start'em in grade 4 (or earlier in JrFLL) By the time the student gets to high school, they already have the tools, the drive, the discipline to perform well on a FTC/FRC team.

Seconded. We sponsor and mentor several JFLL, FLL, and FTC teams in the area, and these are our "farm system".

The downside is that we start each season with something like 120 students. It is challenging to 'herd' that many cats students.

[Walter Deitzler]

These suggestions will be out there, every time, as I have learned, despite what is taught/what you are told.

Even our sponsor offers to outfit our robot will flamethrowers and chainsaws every time we see them, despite us telling them, every time, that that would not be legal.

People find it funny/fun, and it is hard to stop it without looking like a grinch.

[Celia]

On 240, we all have a preseason project that we work on from November to kickoff. Each subteam will have a different project chosen (mostly) by the team leads. For example, build made a device to pick up pool noodles last year. This teaches new members basic skills, tools, and a creative approach to a given task. It also prepares them for the more intense build season. Electrical, CAD, and programming do similar projects.

This way, everyone on the team has a basic knowledge of what they are doing and less time is spent during the build season teaching basic concepts. We still get the ridiculous suggestions (some coming from me...), but our team likes them.

Sure, you aren't going to put that buzzsaw on, but maybe it's attachment, per say, is plausible and relevant to a game mechanism you've been struggling with.

[kevincrispie]

Originally Posted by MICHAELABICK

I agree that discarding ideas is a terrible idea. One good example of an idea I wish we hadn't discarding was lifting up the whole robot to push down the bridge instead of using a mechanism to do so. While this wouldn't have worked for the bridge, some notable teams used it as a fast way to get over the bump(254, 971, 111, and I'm sure others). Furthermore it allowed them to keep their bumpers low which has both offensive and defensive advantages.

Some notable robots have been created from out of the box ideas. The 71 2002 robot is utterly dominant from what I have heard(even though I wasn't around at that time. The 469 2009 robot was also very dominant while using a very out of the box idea. Thinking creatively is definitely very important in the brainstorming stage.

Thinking creatively is definitely a critical stage in the design process for FIRST teams. One strategy that I find effective is to try to focus early stage brainstorming to ideas for tasks or actions that a robot can do. How that task is done can be saved for later brainstorming, as ideas can often go through numerous iterations before settling on a final product.

The going over the bump idea that 971 used in 2012 stemmed from trying to find a way to travel anywhere on the field rapidly. Several designs were thrown out and prototyped before we designed the final version.

Fitting the decision to robot task ideas can help shape brainstorming discussions and help team members think creatively at how to accomplish those tasks at the same time.