Game Manual - Team Update - 2014-03-11

[PayneTrain]

I do like the idea of to make something officially COTS a scenario like this would occur:

Robot comes back to the pits. Someone didn't grease it, and now the gears look more like discs. Guess we need to replace that transmission! Thankfully we have a spare, identical transmission that is identical to the ones we bought from our friends at ACME Robotics. BUT WAIT! The team already brought in a spare intake and catapult and with the added transmission, would go over the 45 pound barrier. This means you have to take it apart, then put it back together, before you can compete with a functioning robot again. This situation would probably inspire me to beat my head against a wall in frustration and help me recognize how silly this rule is in 2014.

We want people to exercise Gracious Professionalism® and play at their best, but also not really because we find this archaic rule to satisfy something related to inspiring students to pursue careers in science and technology.™

[mrnoble]

Ok, so we're now standing on opposite sides of a gulf; some folks think this ruling just serves to clarify a rule that already existed and is generally fair, others are expressing their displeasure. The real question now is: do you intend to follow it?

[Cory]

Originally Posted by mrnoble

Ok, so we're now standing on opposite sides of a gulf; some folks think this ruling just serves to clarify a rule that already existed and is generally fair, others are expressing their displeasure. The real question now is: do you intend to follow it?

I think I already adequately described a scenario in which you follow the rule and can have a practice robot on event premises.

The rule purely addresses whether or not you have to bring in all 45 pounds of fabricated parts as soon as the pits open, or whether you can bring in 15 lbs when the pits open and another 15 (out of some total poundage greater than 45) at the end of practice day when you figure out what upgrade parts you want to run, or something like that. It does nothing to address practice robots.

[BrendanB]

Originally Posted by mrnoble

Ok, so we're now standing on opposite sides of a gulf; some folks think this ruling just serves to clarify a rule that already existed and is generally fair, others are expressing their displeasure. The real question now is: do you intend to follow it?

Yes. No one in this thread is arguing to violate this rule. The discussion is how FIRST keeps implementing these rules that have the unintended consequence of hurting other teams like how 1323 uses their resources to help anyone who needs it. Same goes for our team.

If a team comes up to me saying they are in need of part we have on our practice robot and no one has it inside the event they are out of luck because it is no longer load in day.

[PayneTrain]

Originally Posted by mrnoble

Ok, so we're now standing on opposite sides of a gulf; some folks think this ruling just serves to clarify a rule that already existed and is generally fair, others are expressing their displeasure. The real question now is: do you intend to follow it?

I think a lot of people who dislike bag and tag that come from teams honored with being inducted into the FIRST Hall of Fame will
a) definitely follow the rule,
b) probably have combined more on-team experience than the people who decided this rule and probably have a leg to stand on when they criticize it
c) probably also be ignored just like they have been in the past and will be in the future.

EDIT: Full disclosure-422 is by no means a hall of fame team, but as a team who used to bring in "jump-start" kits to the Virginia Regional to help teams reach a minimum competitive concept (minibot/deployment, bridge tipper, 10-pt hanger, and now guided ramps) we will very likely be unable to serve our FIRST community in this capacity with the new ruling, and I think that is something that should be noted.

[AdamHeard]

This reminds me of something I used to argue.

There should be a "reuse allowance" of some weight (10-45 lbs?) from any previous year.

It's another rule that makes bad teams better, but doesn't appreciably help good teams aside from maybe saving a few bucks.

It also helps cover the area of the withholding allowance rule people are complaining about.

[Nick.kremer]

Originally Posted by PayneTrain

We want people to exercise Gracious Professionalism® and play at their best, but also not really because we find this archaic rule to satisfy something related to inspiring students to pursue careers in science and technology.™

^ The trademark at the end killed me, but this is very true.