pic: new shoes

[BJT]

we use a pneumatic rivet gun now, but have also had success with a good hand riveter. we drill through the tread and the wheel in one of the "dips" in the tread. when we rivet it by hand, I push down on the head of the gun real hard and a student runs the handle. If they get in good and tight aluminum rivets will work fine.

[sanddrag]

Once you get a pneumatic rivet puller, you'll wonder how you ever lived without it. It's hands down our best tool under $100.

[R.C.]

Originally Posted by sanddrag

Once you get a pneumatic rivet puller, you'll wonder how you ever lived without it. It's hands down our best tool under $100.

Under $50 actually. By far one of my favorite tools to have around the shop.

[Oblarg]

Originally Posted by sanddrag

Once you get a pneumatic rivet puller, you'll wonder how you ever lived without it. It's hands down our best tool under $100.

When you factor in the cost of a compressor, it's not inexpensive. Unfortunately, neither of the teams I mentor has a compressed air line in their workspace.

A good hand riveter (all-metal construction with suitably long handles) works fine, in my experience.

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by Oblarg

When you factor in the cost of a compressor, it's not inexpensive. Unfortunately, neither of the teams I mentor has a compressed air line in their workspace.

A good hand riveter (all-metal construction with suitably long handles) works fine, in my experience.

If a team is doing rivets in any meaningful qty, spending a few hundred bucks for a nice riveter and small compressor is well worth it.

[Abhishek R]

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

If a team is doing rivets in any meaningful qty, spending a few hundred bucks for a nice riveter and small compressor is well worth it.

We had our first experience with an air-powered riveter this past year. Especially after doing the entire prototype robot by hand, I couldn't believe how we had survived without that tool. Made things go by faster and without less stress on a few select students ^^

[g_sawchuk]

Wow, someone sure has been using those wheels. We had a demo on pavement, but we limited skid turns, so by the end, they were only a bit worn down. Then we replaced them for an off season event.

[Oblarg]

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

If a team is doing rivets in any meaningful qty, spending a few hundred bucks for a nice riveter and small compressor is well worth it.

I think it depends on what you mean by "meaningful quantity." If you're putting together a tube-and-gusset chassis, it's not all that difficult to do your riveting by hand. It's still faster than bolting the assembly together.

If you're doing sheet metal, I can see how it would be a real pain to have to do all your rivets manually.

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by Oblarg

I think it depends on what you mean by "meaningful quantity." If you're putting together a tube-and-gusset chassis, it's not all that difficult to do your riveting by hand. It's still faster than bolting the assembly together.

If you're doing sheet metal, I can see how it would be a real pain to have to do all your rivets manually.

We do tube and gusset for pretty much every system. We did't have a pneumatic riveter until 2011, and did hand until then.

It's certainly meaningful quantity, and it's certainly worth it. The time saved is huge.

I like to think of labor in terms of minimum wage. If the cost of a tool saves enough labor that it's "making" more than minimum wage, it's worth it (as our kids make well above minimum wage when they're out fundraising). The flipside is true too... any fabrication we do that "saves" less than minimum wage is a bad decision, and should be a COTS item.

Too many teams work themselves for below minimum wage.

[Oblarg]

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

We do tube and gusset for pretty much every system. We did't have a pneumatic riveter until 2011, and did hand until then.

It's certainly meaningful quantity, and it's certainly worth it. The time saved is huge.

I like to think of labor in terms of minimum wage. If the cost of a tool saves enough labor that it's "making" more than minimum wage, it's worth it (as our kids make well above minimum wage when they're out fundraising). The flipside is true too... any fabrication we do that "saves" less than minimum wage is a bad decision, and should be a COTS item.

Too many teams work themselves for below minimum wage.

Unfortunately, the reality for many teams is that time spent is not some limitlessly fungible resource where any time saved in manufacturing can be converted to money through fundraising efforts.

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by Oblarg

Unfortunately, the reality for many teams is that time spent is not some limitlessly fungible resource where any time saved in manufacturing can be converted to money through fundraising efforts.

Is there a law/rule against fundraising for you locally?

[Oblarg]

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

Is there a law/rule against fundraising for you locally?

No, but there are practical considerations in how much time we can realistically motivate our students to spend on fundraising, how much money that fundraising will actually bring in, and when it is feasible to do fundraising activities (time saved during our twice-weekly preseason meetings is not equivalent to time spent at events outside of those meetings).

If we save some amount of time on our preseason drive chassis (say, an hour or two) by having a pneumatic riveter, there is really no feasible way we can readily turn that hour or two into money given the constraints of our team structure.

There are a lot of assumptions implicit in the utility calculation you've outlined. Those assumptions are valid in some contexts, but certainly not universally.

[Chris is me]

We bought the Harbor Freight riveter right before our 2014 season to save us time and energy... and broke it almost immediately. We ended up just getting another hand riveter and using two of those. Ate up a LOT of time in build season though - with the amount of rivets in the claw we probably consumed more than 1 build meeting total in extra time wasted.

That said, hand riveters get the job done just fine. With practice we could do things like change claw parts (drilling out at least 12-16 rivets and replacing them) in just a few minutes.

[75vs1885]

I was trying it yesterday and it wasn't working well at all, however out hose was leaking a lot so i think that was the direct cause. Once we fix/ replace the hose we can see how it works!

[JesseK]

Stephen, were you using the small yellow compressor directly or hooking it up to the wall-mounted air line? Send an email to Drake/Laverty to get a replacement host once you find the leak.

I'm not sure it's worth it to bring a compressor tank & air rivet gun to competition just for tread rivets, so we'll have to see what else we can rivet this season if the air rivet gun works so well we decide to go that route.