The Quest for Einstein

[Jared Russell]

The best way to get to Einstein is to analyze the game, figure out which three robots would make up the ideal Einstein alliance, and then design, build, iterate, and polish the one that best matches your teams' capabilities.

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by Jared Russell

The best way to get to Einstein is to analyze the game, figure out which three robots would make up the ideal Einstein alliance, and then design, build, iterate, and polish the one that best matches your teams' capabilities.

Yes.... but, your robot also has to be capable of reaching Championship first. In certain games, there are niche designs that are incredibly important at the top levels of play, but might not be all that important at lower levels and end up failing to qualify for Championship.

[Jared Russell]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

Yes.... but, your robot also has to be capable of reaching Championship first. In certain games, there are niche designs that are incredibly important at the top levels of play, but might not be all that important at lower levels and end up failing to qualify for Championship.

Of course. A robot built for maximizing the chance of winning its Regional or District may be very different from one that is the perfect third robot on an Einstein alliance. Or not...depends on the game.

Realistically, there is usually at least one spot for a "individual contributor" robot that, while it can't do everything, can productively do some scoring objective well. Ex., a really efficient tote stacker or recycle bin capper is likely to do reasonably well at all levels of eliminations play given the right partners.

[robochick1319]

I know for us it was a mix of robot design, strategy, and good luck. Some years everything just "clicks" and you make it. Every year you should be designing and strategizing to play at the highest level. None of this, "That'll do" business.

We are definitely itching to get back there. Hence our newest t-shirt design

http://www.zazzle.com/no_sleep_til_e...47236812950034

[waialua359]

Getting to Einstein has two levels.
Being one of the top tier elite teams in each division, who then pick each other in the 1st round. Then the complementary 2nd partner to help round out the alliance.
There are other cases where the alliance captain seeded lower, picks 2 great teams (during serpentine drafts), that also build great alliances. In those instances sometimes, we've seen good teams fall to the bottom of the top 8, decline and make their own.

The problem is for teams similar to ours. We can never get over the hump, because we dont get picked early, nor do we get picked later in the 2nd round. Always stuck in the middle. Being in the middle is the worst place to be or to be selected there, IMO.

[Michael Corsetto]

Originally Posted by waialua359

The problem is for teams similar to ours. We can never get over the hump, because we dont get picked early, nor do we get picked later in the 2nd round. Always stuck in the middle. Being in the middle is the worst place to be or to be selected there, IMO.

Glenn,

I seem to remember 359 turning down the #1 seed in 2013... along with 3 other teams...

To the OP: Steal from the best, invent the rest. We are constantly looking to 254 (best team in FRC), and they're a huge reason we've gotten to where we are. Also 971 and 973. All world champions within that past 6 years.

#sunsoutgunsout #choochoo

-Mike

[kevincrispie]

Perhaps one of the most important attributes a team or team members can have is hustle. I distinctly remember the Silicon Valley Regional in 2013 and being impressed by the hustle and determination of the students on 973. Even though there weren't many of them, each student went the extra mile to make sure that 973 was a highly competitive team. It was quite inspirational. They certainly live up to the slogan that is printed on their shirts, "Outwork us".

Successful teams that I've encountered have creative, focused, and hardworking students. They have the ability to overcome obstacles. Many currently successful teams weren't always successful, and worked very hard to get to where they are today. I know that's true of my team and other multiple regional winning teams, and it's a continuous effort to keep improving and figure out ways to run our team.

All these traits are achievable in any FIRST team, regardless of their size or resources. I don't just look at great teams's robots when I go to competitions, I look at the kids working and I try to figure out what makes a team go.

[ice.berg]

Money - I am going to have to disagree on this one. Yes money does help, but doest it directly influent success? I don't think so.

Resourcefulness - I believe this is one of the most crucial things in FIRST. You may not have a lot of cash or other fancy things, but its how you use your resources to their greatest ability. I have seen some many successful robots built with a reciprocating saw and a dewalt. Now, of course it may not be the most efficient or prettiest, but it sure could get the job done.

It may be a surprise but, money does not automatically buy you a great robot in FIRST.

[artK]

The third (and fourth) bot is extremely important to doing well at champs. Consider the third robots of the past few years championship alliances. Getting the best alliance partners requires a great combination of an amazing robot, strong scouting, a generous schedule, and some teams to fall deep into the draft. Teams like 2848, 610, 16, 973, 177, 971, 148, 987*, who normally go deep (or win) at the most competitive regionals, were the second picks on these alliances. Even the fourth bots this year were all exceptional robots (5136 and 3467 were among my favorite machines that year, and those four backup robots won three events, a couple of district champion finals appearances).

The one catch for trying to build a good third robot is that what it contributes to the alliance can be difficult to see year to year, especially when doing initial strategic analysis. I could write in extreme detail what third bots did, but in general, the best third robots specialized in something other than the primary scoring function.



*I am not sure what the draft order was when they won champs, but it was from the 8th seed, and 177 is already on the list.

[dodar]

Originally Posted by artK

The third (and fourth) bot is extremely important to doing well at champs. Consider the third robots of the past few years championship alliances. Getting the best alliance partners requires a great combination of an amazing robot, strong scouting, a generous schedule, and some teams to fall deep into the draft. Teams like 2848, 610, 16, 973, 177, 971, 148, 987*, who normally go deep (or win) at the most competitive regionals, were the second picks on these alliances. Even the fourth bots this year were all exceptional robots (5136 and 3467 were among my favorite machines that year, and those four backup robots won three events, a couple of district champion finals appearances).

The one catch for trying to build a good third robot is that what it contributes to the alliance can be difficult to see year to year, especially when doing initial strategic analysis. I could write in extreme detail what third bots did, but in general, the best third robots specialized in something other than the primary scoring function.



*I am not sure what the draft order was when they won champs, but it was from the 8th seed, and 177 is already on the list.

190 picked 987 then 177 in 2007.

[The_ShamWOW88]

Originally Posted by Michael Corsetto

#sunsoutgunsout #choochoo

Unless you're in New England....

#AllAboutThatShovelLife

[BrendanB]

Originally Posted by The_ShamWOW88

Unless you're in New England....

#AllAboutThatShovelLife

#snowblowyouaway

[waialua359]

Originally Posted by Michael Corsetto

Glenn,

I seem to remember 359 turning down the #1 seed in 2013... along with 3 other teams...

-Mike

We're bad luck. You wouldnt have made Einstein and you wouldnt have had a great 148 that year.

[Citrus Dad]

There are lots of great answers in this thread and I don't disagree with any of the longer ones. (We also can show counterexamples to the short numeric list.)

There is a great answer on the importance of mentors in another current thread that I'll link to. Your team doesn't need all of these, but having many of these elements is key.

I'll add two other elements that I think are key:

1) Play for the entire game, and think strategically. It's not having the best robot, the best driver, the best scouting system, or the most resources. It's coming up with an effective combination with strategic consideration. Mike Corsetto has a great presentation on this as well as Karthik. And this requires pre-thought; it doesn't start on Kickoff.

2) Constantly work on improving your robot. Look at pictures of 2013 robot at Central Valley vs at Champs. You won't recognize it. 1671 started improving their robot all through competition this year, and they were the shock pick of Champs.

3) Take advantage of the good luck you're handed. 2014 was the year we relied on the least amount of luck, but 610 having one really bad match poorly timed for 1114 made the difference for us. In 2013 we used other teams' unfamiliarity with us to our advantage to exploit a favorable schedule. This year we drew three teams that we were already very familiar with in our division and were able to put them together into an alliance.

I know that I'm not alone in making this offer as Mike, Karthik, Jared and Suri have posted here: please feel free to message me about any advice or resources we might be able to provide to make you a more successful team.

[Michael Corsetto]

Originally Posted by Citrus Dad

Mike Corsetto has a great presentation on this as well as Karthik.

Just to clarify, Karthik has a great presentation. I've learned a lot from watching his presentation for many years, and he has graciously allowed me to reference much of his presentation during my presentations surrounding these topics.