paper: Drive team selection and practice

[lark95]

Thread created automatically to discuss a document in CD-Media.

Drive team selection and practice by lark95

[Rjmartin127]

I personally agree with this paper a lot. It has a lot of good points and good guidance for teams. I just wanted to point out for your benefit a typo in section 3) Secondary Driver, second paragraph. The first sentence has the word "dodn't" when I believe you meant "didn't". But over all fantastic paper that I really enjoyed.

[lark95]

Thanks a lot

[Loose Screw]

Hmmm, those drive team requirements seem familiar

As for the written drive test, I think the 90% seems a bit high, but that depends on when they take it. I usually give that test after a few days, so I just take all the tests and compare the results. If you're giving this later in the season, I would go with 75% or so. Drivers could still learn after the test, and you don't want to rule out your best driver because they thought a processed litter was 2pts instead of 1pt.

For choosing the driver/manipulator, I let my kids try out for both. I don't want to take a smart kid out of the drive team completely because they prefer driving over manip, and someone was slightly better at driving then them. Yes, it causes more of a headache for me (more drive team combinations), but I coach FTC where the teams are usually 10 kids. I get less kids trying out than say a 30-50 student FRC team. If this is your case, continue to let kids try out for both, but choose a driver then your manip.

Other than those two points, this is very well writen. Choosing your drivers is one of the most difficult decissions as a coach, but with this system it makes it easier. I wish you the best of luck for years to come!

[IronicDeadBird]

Interesting read. It is always nice to see a different perspective on how to run drive team. The bits I find interesting.

"The coach tells the driver a generic task and the driver should know every detail of how to do so."
This is not what I do at all (I'm not saying its wrong I just don't do this) when we queue up we have a lovely chat with teams about strategy and the primary drivers sets the driving strategy and methods to match it. They know the roles, they know the plays, they on their own until I provide input. As a drive coach I keep my eyes on everything that the drive team doesn't have time to look at. Anything that provides a distraction or can cause distress and lower performance but is still important information is on me. Drivers don't look at timers, drivers don't look at refs, I do. I inform them off information that may cause them to react in bad ways.

Driver candidates may not touch the robot controls until they take a written test that covers every rule mentioned in that year's "The Game" document, and must score over 90%. They can take the test as many times as they want, and the test doesn't change - the only thing that matters is that they learn the rules of the game until they are second nature.
--A drive team that knows the rules by heart can perform some fairly impressive feats and make quick judgment calls on the field

I have never done written tests due to the fact that the rules change often enough that I don't feel it is worth my time. Again it ties into the fact that I deal with ref's making calls on situations. The rules aren't as important to the drivers as they are to me because when I give a driver a method, or strategy that strategy when run is well within game rules. It is only when plans get derailed to the rules come into play. When it comes to calling shots on dealing with situations that may result in fouls, or penalties its on me as the drive coach. This has the added benefit of all flak is on me so when mistakes are made even if it was "done" by the driver, I was the one who chose the method so it is on me.

"They should never need to be asked to practice, or to do a drill again, or pestered to practice more. They need to want to do it themselves, and get angry and hold others accountable when for some reason they can't practice, or something is preventing them from practicing."
I believe that drive practice isn't a right, it is a privilege. I take away drive practice if I believe time isn't being properly utilized. Actual physical practice time with the machine is valuable but not above me taking it away in favor of other things.

All of that is just my opinion and how I view it though for all I know my team just thinks I'm crazy and I am totally okay with that.

[Dunngeon]

Originally Posted by IronicDeadBird

Interesting read. It is always nice to see a different perspective on how to run drive team. The bits I don't agree with.

"The coach tells the driver a generic task and the driver should know every detail of how to do so."
This is not what I do at all (I'm not saying its wrong I just don't do this) when we queue up we have a lovely chat with teams about strategy and the primary drivers sets the driving strategy and methods to match it. They know the roles, they know the plays, they on their own until I provide input. As a drive coach I keep my eyes on everything that the drive team doesn't have time to look at. Anything that provides a distraction or can cause distress and lower performance but is still important information is on me. Drivers don't look at timers, drivers don't look at refs, I do. I inform them off information that may cause them to react in bad ways.

Did you mean to say you agree with him? That's what this paragraph sounds like you're saying.

[IronicDeadBird]

Originally Posted by Dunngeon

Did you mean to say you agree with him? That's what this paragraph sounds like you're saying.

Yeah I wrote that did the quotes and forgot to revise it to reflect that it was more of things I found interesting. Sorry

[lark95]

Hey guys, thanks for all your feedback. Really interesting to hear other people s ideas a opinions.

[lark95]

Originally Posted by Loose Screw

Hmmm, those drive team requirements seem familiar

As for the written drive test, I think the 90% seems a bit high, but that depends on when they take it.

I just chose this number because to potential drivers it gives a sense of the needed excellence. could just be me but i think if you have to get an A on the test that much more is expected for driving.

I also want to be carful that an impossible standard is not set. I know i have made some big mistakes in driving and am thankful my team mentors and captains understand it cant be perfect.

[Loose Screw]

Originally Posted by lark95

I also want to be carful that an impossible standard is not set. I know I have made some big mistakes in driving and am thankful my team mentors and captains understand it cant be perfect.

People make mistakes; how they react to them is what really matters. Using myself as an example, I drove my FRC team's (1023) robot in 2010 and 2012. It was our first district of that year, and I was just a sophomore. In one match we got a red card because of my driving (not paying attention to time, I hit a robot trying to hang). We ended up ranking second from the bottom. However, we were fortunate to be picked by the #1 alliance (67 and 51), and went on to win our team's first district win (shoutout to the HotWingsExpress).

Forward to 2012, I got another chance to drive. We ended up going completely undefeated at our first event, winning our next event, and ranking 14th in OPR of the world.

This improvement is largely do to our team improving over the years, but the point I'm trying to make is that mistakes happen. I made the worst mistake possible as a driver (red card), but I learned from it and improved myself, and return, our team.

[Lij2015]

I love this as a resource for teams without much space or practice time as then it makes sense to pick the best candidates, but in my opinion the best idea, if you don't have a returning driver that didn't cause problems, is to pick a sophomore (not freshman as our freshman seem to not be mature enough to handle this position) driver that is dedicated and then really just someone dedicated as operator (as i've learned that you don't need very long with any aptitude to get good at operating).

With picking a younger driver they then have their first year to figure things out and maybe even do pretty well if they can practice a lot and then can excel their second and third year.

[IronicDeadBird]

Originally Posted by lark95

I just chose this number because to potential drivers it gives a sense of the needed excellence. could just be me but i think if you have to get an A on the test that much more is expected for driving.

I also want to be carful that an impossible standard is not set. I know i have made some big mistakes in driving and am thankful my team mentors and captains understand it cant be perfect.

Since we practice in the cafeteria one requirement is that if you want to do drive practice unless you have a valid excuse, you need to help setup the cafeteria. Its like 20 tables that need to be moved to the sides of the room, chairs need to be cleared out. Practice then everything goes back in that order. If I ever get a complain from janitors that it was done wrong drive practice for that day is canceled. We are getting a new space though so I will need to work something new out. The way I set the level of commitment needed is I sit down first thing and I discuss the scope of what driving is. Being a competition driver is saying "yeah all the work the build team, the programmers, all the hard work of the team it is now on me to execute our designed strategy to the fullest extent of my ability." When you make a mistake someone is going to be unhappy because that is hard work not being utilized correctly. The pressure is set from day one.

[lark95]

Originally Posted by IronicDeadBird

The way I set the level of commitment needed is I sit down first thing and I discuss the scope of what driving is. Being a competition driver is saying "yeah all the work the build team, the programmers, all the hard work of the team it is now on me to execute our designed strategy to the fullest extent of my ability." When you make a mistake someone is going to be unhappy because that is hard work not being utilized correctly. The pressure is set from day one.

I think this line is brilliant.