Is Bowling thought the Low Bar legal

[TheSousaLife]

So I have been in the FRC Stronghold Manual. I found nothing regarding the legality of bowling through the low bar. I did see that the bar was designed so you could not bowl through them. However, if you did, would you be penalized??

[ratdude747]

Originally Posted by TheSousaLife

So I have been in the FRC Stronghold Manual. I found nothing regarding the legality of bowling through the low bar. I did see that the bar was designed so you could not bowl through them. However, if you did, would you be penalized??

Update two made it explicitly illegal as per G40. Although it was more or less illegal before then.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by TheSousaLife

So I have been in the FRC Stronghold Manual. I found nothing regarding the legality of bowling through the low bar. I did see that the bar was designed so you could not bowl through them. However, if you did, would you be penalized??

If you were to somehow get the ball through or over the cloth, which happens to be weighted down with a metal pipe, using a rolling bowl from 27' away, up a ramp, I can find no rule that would currently provide a justification for a penalty, unless you had a robot hold the cloth open (G40-1, tech foul).


However, I think the laws of physics indicate that doing so is going to be very difficult at best.


Edit: just saw ratdude's post. Sorry, mate, but G40 only applies to a ROBOT sending the Boulder through, while the OP is talking HP, I do believe.

[Boltman]

No rule prohibiting bowling through low bar or even launching over it from HP Embrasure to Opponent courtyard...but good luck with that

[CalTran]

Originally Posted by Boltman

No rule prohibiting bowling through low goal or even launching over it from HP Embrasure to Opponent courtyard...but good luck with that

I would submit the question to the Q&A for a definitive answer, but I believe that G33 B and C saying "Boulders may only be introduced to the FIELD during TELEOP by a DRIVER or HUMAN PLAYER, and through one of the holes in the HUMAN PLAYER STATION.
Violation: FOUL per BOULDER

[EricH]

Originally Posted by CalTran

I would submit the question to the Q&A for a definitive answer, but I believe that G33 B and C saying "Boulders may only be introduced to the FIELD during TELEOP by a DRIVER or HUMAN PLAYER, and through one of the holes in the HUMAN PLAYER STATION.
Violation: FOUL per BOULDER

The Embrasure is one of those holes (actually two, because there are two Embrasures and one Brattice). What he's saying is that there's no rule prohibiting a particularly hard kick/bowl/Boulder Propulsion Method from going through/over the opponents' Outer Works, specifically the Low Bar (which is NOT to be confused with the Low Goals)--which is true. I think Physics is more of a Law than a Rule.

[CalTran]

Originally Posted by EricH

The Embrasure is one of those holes (actually two, because there are two Embrasures and one Brattice). What he's saying is that there's no rule prohibiting a particularly hard kick/bowl/Boulder Propulsion Method from going through/over the opponents' Outer Works, specifically the Low Bar (which is NOT to be confused with the Low Goals)--which is true. I think Physics is more of a Law than a Rule.

Oh, right. I read it as launching over the HP station. My bad.

[nickyflash]

I would be quite surprised if a Boulder could ever go from the embrasures past/over the Low Bar. I haven't tested it yet, but maybe there could be the slimmest chance that the Boulder could swerve right and travel past Defense #2. (G40 is not violated)

[Boltman]

I boils down to .....

"The OUTER WORKS impede the passage of ROBOTS and BOULDERS into the COURTYARD. ROBOTS move BOULDERS across the OUTER WORKS into the COURTYARD one-at-a-time. "

"The OUTER WORKS.... is designed to impeded the passage of ROBOTS and BOULDERS in to the COURTYARDS"

There are RULES (G40) for Robots and NONE for Human Players.

So in Theory IF a Human Player can get the boulder from one of the two holes in the EMBRASURE and into the opponent courtyard you just beat the design to impede that and NO FOUL.

And good luck with that. We want you on our alliance.

[FrankJ]

To be a little less cryptic. Update 2 added rule G40-1 prohibiting a robot holding/propping the low bar flap open and the drive team rolling ball through it. So while not specifically prohibited, bowling a ball through the low flap would be difficult.

[Edxu]

If you really wanted to game the system, one thing you could do is have your ROBOT grab the cloth and instead of holding it open, simply hold it taut at an angle such that when the Human Player punts the ball through the embrasure, the cloth of the Low Bar behaves like a ramp, propelling the ball over.

Although it then causes some ambiguity over the definition of "open" and "closed": "not closed or barred at the time, as a doorway by a door, a window by a sash, or a gateway by a gate: " - Dictionary.com

[timtim17]

Q528 caused it to be illegal, creating G40-1 in update 2.

[Chak]

Originally Posted by timtim17

Q528 caused it to be illegal, creating G40-1 in update 2.

Q528 makes it illegal for a robot to hold the low bar open so that a HP can bowl the ball pass the low bar. The OP is asking about the HP bowling the ball pass the low bar without assistance. As others have said, this is probably physically impossible, but not explicitly illegal right now.

Originally Posted by Q528

However, it conflicts with the intended game play whereby BOULDERS are brought to COURTYARDS by ROBOTS

And I wouldn't want to go against the GDC's intent anyways. I'm pretty sure that if you decided to Q&A this, you would receive the same answer as Q528 except it's a different (and more difficult) loophole.

[rich2202]

Instead of the robot holding the cloth, how about the robot in the shape of a wedge, and the boulder "hits" the robot and "bounces" over the low bar?

[Chak]

Originally Posted by rich2202

Instead of the robot holding the cloth, how about the robot in the shape of a wedge, and the boulder "hits" the robot and "bounces" over the low bar?

Similar to the OP's solution, I think that this would probably be physically impossible.
Even if you figure out a way to do it, this robot would be violating G40.

Originally Posted by G40

A ROBOT may not cause a BOULDER to move from the NEUTRAL ZONE into the opponent’s COURTYARD unless:
A. the ROBOT contacts the BOULDER within OUTER WORKS, and
B. the ROBOT completes its CROSSING (i.e. doesn’t completely back out of the OUTER WORKS into the NEUTRAL ZONE)

You would receive a tech foul per boulder, unless this robot follows every boulder through the defense. In that case, any robot with an effective floor intake would be able to perform the same function in a more feasible way.