2004 Championship Eligibility Criteria!!!

[generalbrando]

LOL. I'll go to his house, but I'll be asking for a tour instead of a change in this policy. I personally don't see a problem with these 6 going. I won't give my reasons because everyone's already said them. Beyond those reasons though, the fact is that FIRST has their reasons and I respect them for that. I'm not saying we should listen to them no matter what and agree with what they do. I'm just saying that the probably had these same discussions at their meetings and they came to this conclusion. That's enough for me.

[Alaina]

I'm just fine with most of the new criteria. But I don't see why the only technology award that can get a team qualified is Engineering Inspiration. I mean, it's a perfectly legitimate award, but what about the other ones? Like Leadership in Controls or Driving Tomorrow's Technology? I think they all deserve equal recognition.

[KenWittlief]

I'll go to his house, but I'll be asking for a tour instead of a change in this policy....

goto the kickoff meeting in NH - Dean invites everyone to his house the night before to have dinner

but dont ask for a tour - its more fun to explore his house on your own - I got to go in '99 - coolest home Ive ever seen

esp the secret passages - and if you've been there, you know where I got my sig line from.

[Tytus Gerrish]

Originally posted by KenWittlief
now that I think of it, there is a way for other teams to get 'most favored' status

1. invent a time machine
2. go back to 1992
3. start a team at your school for the original FIRST comp
4. come back to 2003, now there will be 7 teams on the list

piece of cake :c)

Hey man I have a flux compacitor, I just need a delorian to put it in

[KenWittlief]

I have a silver Fiero - its not a delorean, but from a distance, its close :c)

[Winged Globe]

Originally posted by Alaina
I'm just fine with most of the new criteria. But I don't see why the only technology award that can get a team qualified is Engineering Inspiration. I mean, it's a perfectly legitimate award, but what about the other ones? Like Leadership in Controls or Driving Tomorrow's Technology? I think they all deserve equal recognition.

Actually, it isn't a technical award...
Quoth the manual:

Engineering Inspiration
This award celebrates a team’s outstanding success in advancing respect and appreciation for
engineering and engineers, both within their school, as well as their community. Criteria
include: the extent and inventiveness of the team’s efforts to recruit students to engineering, the
extent and effectiveness of the team’s community outreach efforts, and the measurable success of
those efforts. This is the second highest team award FIRST bestows.

So it seems technical awards no longer qualify you for Championships.

Originally posted by Alaina
I'm just fine with most of the new criteria. But I don't see why the only technology award that can get a team qualified is Engineering Inspiration. I mean, it's a perfectly legitimate award, but what about the other ones? Like Leadership in Controls or Driving Tomorrow's Technology? I think they all deserve equal recognition.

To make a point, at competitions they say the Engineering Inspiration Award is the 2nd place chairmans award just like what it says in the FIRST manual...its on a completely different level then the rest of the awards w/ exception to chairmans award

[Michael R. Lee]

Personally, the FIRST rules for this year are fine. The previous years have been a quick fix to the problem as our team lead (thank you Erin!) was explaining to us. FIRST awards have alwaysd been held in certain leels not only to FIRST but to individual teams. Like to some the Motorola Quality Award from regionals means more than a Regional Championship. But FIRST has always published a list of the awards, its citeria, and how they would be viewed or ranked within FIRST circles. They've just applied it here.

[Joe Ross]

I see three major points being argued in this thread.

1. The original 6 teams shouldn't be get a free ride.

While I personally think that those 6 teams shouldn't get a free ride, this is the same rule that has been argued about over the past 2 years. I haven't seen any new information presented on the against side, and the for side seem to have better arguments then before.

2. It's really hard to travel on such short notice

Yes, it is hard to travel on such short notice, and even harder to raise funds that quickly. However, there are LESS teams traveling on short notice then before. This year, only 6 teams will qualify from each regional. Last year, there were 8 from each regional.

3. Nationals shouldn't be limited

Very few people have argued that nationals were better when they were smaller, the issue is how big can nationals get? I think it is possible for nationals to get bigger then the current 300 team limit. But, I know they can't get big enough to encompass every high school in the country. Is it a big deal if they could have 400 teams out of 800 go to nationals, instead of 300? maybe. What about that difference of 100 when there are 10,000 teams?

Just for reference, the Championships of the Quiz bowl, had about 50 teams, the Academic decathalon had 37 and MATHCOUNTS had 25. I'd say FIRST is way ahead of the curve as far as getting teams to participate in the championships. Also, AFAIK, there is no national championships for any high school sports teams.

I am not a fan of those people who tell you not to argue. So I'm not telling you not to argue, but to look at the whole picture when arguing.

[JVN]

Clarification:
Rookies will be in the "zeroeth" tier. They will then drop down from there. So... this year, any 2003 rookies who did not go to Houston are in Tier 1.

I believe that FIRST tried to rush this information out by the end of the day Friday. They will most likely have an improved description out sometime early this week.


John

[Jeremy_Mc]

Originally posted by JVN
Clarification:
Rookies will be in the "zeroeth" tier. They will then drop down from there. So... this year, any 2003 rookies who did not go to Houston are in Tier 1.

I believe that FIRST tried to rush this information out by the end of the day Friday. They will most likely have an improved description out sometime early this week.


John

how is that possible? we never went to nat's therefore we should drop into the 6th tier, that is if you're looking at it in the same light as everyone else that tier 6 gets a chance to go to nat's first?

[Amanda Morrison]

I very much like the new rules.

I am going to say these in the nicest way possible:

1. It amazes me that people in the FIRST community are people who can create something from nothing, but relentlessly criticize the helping hands that let them create.

2. Don't be skeptical and criticize when you haven't even tried it out. Once it's been played out and you don't like it, then you can post and give reasons. If you are just skeptical and pointing out why you don't like something, it has little emphasis.

3. I think FIRST is trying its darndest to do the BEST thing. Please keep that in mind - How many meetings do you think were held, how many people put their ideas on the line, to come up with something that is (in their eyes) both fair and just?

4. Until we get through this year and see how the process works, deal.

I'm sorry if this offends you; it isn't meant to make someone mad or point someone out. Just please realize that there's a group of people trying very hard to do the best for the organization, and what is best for your team. While a lot of teams aren't happy about this, think about all the teams this will benefit.

I personally applaud FIRST's decision. Thank you for your decision to benefit all of us.

[JVN]

Originally posted by Amanda Morrison
4. Until we get through this year and see how the process works, deal.

I'm a huge fan of #4.
Couldn't have said it better myself.

[SarahB]

Originally posted by Joe Ross

2. It's really hard to travel on such short notice

Yes, it is hard to travel on such short notice, and even harder to raise funds that quickly. However, there are LESS teams traveling on short notice then before. This year, only 6 teams will qualify from each regional. Last year, there were 8 from each regional.

To be fair, last year many of the teams who qualified during regionals were already going through the even/odd system or points from the year before. My argument was that they aren't giving as much time as possible. Right now you have to finalize payment by the Monday after. But with the new scheduling even after the last regionals theres over a week before Nationals. I understand they want to make it fair so everyone has the same amount of time, but I don't see why they can't extend it to the Friday after the regional.

[KenWittlief]

Originally posted by Jeremy_Mc
how is that possible? we never went to nat's therefore we should drop into the 6th tier, that is if you're looking at it in the same light as everyone else that tier 6 gets a chance to go to nat's first?

if you are a rookie team this year, and another team has been around for 5 or 6 years

then which team has put more work into FIRST, one that has been here for 6 years, or a new team?

if the championship is a reward, which team has done more to earn it?

clearly the team that has 6 years of effort behind it, over a new team.

There are many things in life that you have to work towards. Somethings take years to acheive.