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Unread 24-09-2004, 17:23
Ryan M. Ryan M. is offline
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Re: Do we have to program our robot in C++?

No problem. "Oblivious" people asking questions are what gives us an excuse to sit around on CD.
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Unread 24-09-2004, 21:42
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Re: Do we have to program our robot in C++?

Im new to this FIRST stuff and I was wondering why these robots have to use these processors? We could use more powerful processors like the HandyBoard, Motorolla processors, or K-Team processors. That would make everything more challenging.
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Unread 24-09-2004, 22:20
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Re: Do we have to program our robot in C++?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robot Dude 0101
Im new to this FIRST stuff and I was wondering why these robots have to use these processors? We could use more powerful processors like the HandyBoard, Motorolla processors, or K-Team processors. That would make everything more challenging.
That's the thing--some folks have enough fun (ahem) trying to program the robots as they are. Adding in more powerful/complex processors only makes it harder for us (and rookies, don't forget the rookies) to learn.

Now, if by that you meant being able to use any processor, then there's another issue--as it stands, FIRST teams use pretty common things (mainly since they're in the kit of parts). If 1000 different teams use 1000 different processors, then it's going to be very hard for a programmer to walk to the rookie team next door and offer help, since their setup may be completely foreign to him/her/it.
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Unread 25-09-2004, 11:51
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Re: Do we have to program our robot in C++?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Billfred
That's the thing--some folks have enough fun (ahem) trying to program the robots as they are. Adding in more powerful/complex processors only makes it harder for us (and rookies, don't forget the rookies) to learn.

Now, if by that you meant being able to use any processor, then there's another issue--as it stands, FIRST teams use pretty common things (mainly since they're in the kit of parts). If 1000 different teams use 1000 different processors, then it's going to be very hard for a programmer to walk to the rookie team next door and offer help, since their setup may be completely foreign to him/her/it.
Even though it would be hard for teams to help each other, it would be an interesting idea to let teams use whatever processors they want. But this would only be useful if there was no $300 sensor limit. Since there is, I agree with you that the same processor is a good idea.
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Unread 24-09-2004, 22:22
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Re: Do we have to program our robot in C++?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robot Dude 0101
Im new to this FIRST stuff and I was wondering why these robots have to use these processors? We could use more powerful processors like the HandyBoard, Motorolla processors, or K-Team processors. That would make everything more challenging.
Programming is, for many teams, one of the aspects of making their machine they find most difficult. In recent years, FIRST has worked hard to make building a robot easier, but at the same time providing the headroom for more experienced teams to innovate. The new control system provides a pretty good balance. I think Microchip PIC Processors are used a lot in industry, so this also may be part of their choice.

(Also, if I'm not mistaken, the PIC uses a Motorola processor...)
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Unread 26-09-2004, 09:03
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Re: Do we have to program our robot in C++?

FIRST will publish the "Official Rules" at the kick-off. I am sure there will be restrictions, as in the past, regarding the controller, specifically the software. There is great effort at making all teams even in many respects as well as constraining the technical issues FIRST tech support will have to deal with.

In the past you were NOT allowed to modify the OI or RC in any way other than programming. In addition, usage of additional electronics is specifically controlled each year.

I am sure the controller will not operate on any other language other than "C".

Read the "Official Rules" when they are published by FIRST.

Ask here if you need additional information. The community of Chief Delphi will respond.
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Unread 26-09-2004, 11:23
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Re: Do we have to program our robot in C++?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Martus
I am sure the controller will not operate on any other language other than "C".
It should be possible to program the RC in a different language, like PIC assembler (because it's the job of the compiler to write a .hex file, which contains generic PIC instructions, rather than C code or some other language). However, there's absolutely no support for this, and it would be a miracle if someone got a re-coded version of the firmware to actually work with itself, much less the field controllers.
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Unread 26-09-2004, 12:16
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Re: Do we have to program our robot in C++?

We should use Java....not! It will take forever for the virtual machine to load ("it's 45 seconds left and the robot is standing still") and for the navigation system, "Java.lang.Math is loading...." I guess C is a good alternative (even though I am terrible at C programming). Java has great uses as a dash program, though.
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Unread 03-10-2004, 09:46
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Re: Do we have to program our robot in C++?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tristan Lall
It should be possible to program the RC in a different language, like PIC assembler (because it's the job of the compiler to write a .hex file, which contains generic PIC instructions, rather than C code or some other language). However, there's absolutely no support for this, and it would be a miracle if someone got a re-coded version of the firmware to actually work with itself, much less the field controllers.
This sounds like a brilliant way to use last year's robot...
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Unread 03-10-2004, 10:51
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Re: Do we have to program our robot in C++?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robot Dude 0101
Im new to this FIRST stuff and I was wondering why these robots have to use these processors? We could use more powerful processors like the HandyBoard, Motorolla processors, or K-Team processors. That would make everything more challenging.
It would make it more challenging for some teams, but some teams would eat this up and be even crazier then they were before.

The bigger issue I see is the headache at events for FIRST. Right now, there is the same controller/radio setup on every robot. Even with everyone using the same RC setup, teams still botch it in many creative ways. FIRST knows the current setup so they can help debug it when the match was suppost to start 2 minutes ago. If teams were allowed to use any controller, they wouldn't be able to help, and I think the number of teams having comms problems would increase with a decrease in the quality of help available.


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Unread 04-10-2004, 16:55
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Re: Do we have to program our robot in C++?

Is there a rule saying we can't use any type of controller? What if someone can modify an N64 controller and use that? Would that be against the rules?
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Unread 04-10-2004, 16:59
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Re: Do we have to program our robot in C++?

I think you've got joysticks and controllers mixed up.

Innovation First makes the control system that tells the robot to do stuff. Yes, you have to use it.

Joysticks (and anything else that connects to the operator interface, for that matter) have been functionally wide open. Go wild on that, if you prefer. And if you get an N64 controller to work with it, we want pictures.

(note, however, that everything is subject to change without notice or reason)
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Last edited by Billfred : 04-10-2004 at 18:54.
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Unread 04-10-2004, 17:04
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Re: Do we have to program our robot in C++?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Billfred
I think you've got joysticks and controllers mixed up.

Innovation First makes the control system that tells the robot to do stuff. Yes, you have to use it.

Joysticks (and anything else that connects to the operator interface, for that matter) are functionally wide open. Go wild on that, if you prefer. And if you get an N64 controller to work with it, we want pictures.
The rules are subject to change.

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