pic: (447) How do YOU keep programmers out of the electronics?

[Rick TYler]

First off, I'm not sure that you are using the correct Victor for this year, but unless you post a pic with the model number I guess we have to trust you.

Second, it won't work. No programmer will be stopped by a mere hardware feature. (Here, let me do that ... *SNAP* OW OW OW!!! Hey, what was that? <reboot> Here let me do that ... *SNAP* OW OW OW!!! Hey, what was that? <reboot>: well, you get the point.)

Third, if they're going to blame you for it anyway, you might as well have fun.

Fourth, as a mentor I have to frown on this sort of thing.

Fifth, as a former programmer and amateur radio operator,

Sixth, remember, as fur-bearing creatures, programmers may only be trapped between November and March.

[rufu5]

1.5 hours shouldn't be complained about, unless you have years of experience..

Well the funny thing is, this is my sixth year on this team, and my first four years (back in the glorious days of basic) I did electronics and programming. The two aformentioned programmers on my team are second year (a father and a son). What I did was, after spending about 10 mins tracing all my connections with an ohm meter, I did the only logical thing and (in my mind) blamed it on the programmers. One hour and twenty minutes later, they tried a new code and ... IT WORKED! I thought: "Eh, might as well let them figure it out for themselves."

So I completly agree with

Third, if they're going to blame you for it anyway, you might as well have fun.

you are a wise man Rick

[cdawzrd]

I agree it seems odd to have seperate electronics and programming teams, unless you have a crazybig team and it makes sense that way. My co-programmers and I do all the electronics as well. This makes it soo much more efficient, especially with the recent addition of such electronics as the camera. We also are less likely to get in each others' way. But, we've always had this sort of "mechanical team" and "everything else technical" team :-)

[Kyle Love]

When Alan Anderson is your teams programmer...you don't keep him out of the electronics...you encourage him.

[Shu Song]

If I only have a contraptio which allowed to me keep programmers away from all the electronic equipment, then I'll be a happy camper.

One of the programmers was working with our gyro for a few days before we were to mount it onto the electronics board. When it finally came time to mount the gyro, I couldn't find it. So I asked him where he put it, but he couldn't remember. I sent him to look for it; ten minutes later he turns up with nothing and says that he has to go back to work. Which left me to look for that gyro, which by the way happened to have been stacked away UNDER just about every storage bin we have. Now thankfully, the gyro wasn't crushed at all, the bins were supported by other spare parts that I had lost.

Man... I'm telling you electronics people, keep track of all your stuff.
No offense to our programmers, I love 'em, they are the life force of the robot.

[scott]

My being from 447 as well, I would have to disagree with the eff. of combining the subteams. We always ( even in relaxing times ) have this constant urgency,lol. Having 2 subteams for programming and electronics gives us, the Machine Shop Team, 2 places to blame for any problems. . . . . . because it is NEVER a the our fault! lol

Sorry Rufdus, I HAD TO POST IT!!

Pic on how to keep the remainder of the robot safe from the Electronic/Programming Team COMING SOON!

[nehalita]

because of ppl like you, i do not TOUCH the robot. i don't even press the load button or the reset button. nooo touchy. but i like it better like that, this way, when something goes wrong, i can wholly blame the electronics ppl and not just partially. =)

[Rombus]

That’s why you be both I program and do electronics.

I cant see how teams succeed with both teams being completely separate unless you had some great communications. Heck, it’s probably a good idea to have everyone be cross trained in another team for good communications.

And a small jab at the electronics only people:
Lets be honest, it’s just wiring! It’s not like you have to build a custom robotic controller! (J/K Please don’t flame me )

[408Oxidation]

Originally Posted by nehalita

because of ppl like you, i do not TOUCH the robot. i don't even press the load button or the reset button. nooo touchy. but i like it better like that, this way, when something goes wrong, i can wholly blame the electronics ppl and not just partially. =)

So true...
I get blamed for everything wrong with the programming.... crazy indian programmers...

One member of our team, we still don't know who, wired a little badly during our "in house competition" before FIRST. One of the victors on the test bot had both the power input and ouput cables goin to the fuse board. It made nice smelling smoke.

[Jizvonius]

Ok guys.. this has really gone on for way too long. The electrical team is called that because they handle all the electrical hardware on the robot. If you have one, it means that you have some faith in their abilities. The same applies to programmers with their job being software. If a problem arises, playing the blame game just wastes time. The way i see it goes like this.

- Blame teams -(time passes)

- Figure out who got blamed more -(more time passes)

- Losing team goes insane trying to find the problem with other team standing vindictively behind them - (you've missed 1-2 practice matches)

- Other team begins to search for problem in losing teams area of expertise -(missed another 1-2 practice matches)

- Giving up the other team begins to scour their area for the problem with the previously losing team being vindictive - (miss or operate badly in 1-4 Seeding rounds)

- Problem is finally found and hopefully resolved -(two whole teams are worn out and a lot of time is wasted)

The times may be shorter or longer, but what I'm saying is always entertain the possibility that your team did it. Each team should work on finding and solving the problem their area of expertise. The problem will almost always be found faster and you save your whole team a lot of headaches.

So back to the topic. How do I keep the programmers out of the electronics? Mutual respect for each other's work and an understanding of efficient team dynamics.

[neilsonster]

On our robot the program port is right beside the wheels so I have to go in between the chains to get to it... all they would have to do is turn it on while I'm working to kill my precious fingers (or my precious serial cable)! But that's why I unplug the pwms! To save my fingers.

(I usually plug them back in afterwards)

[FreakyAntelope]

Originally Posted by neilsonster

On our robot the program port is right beside the wheels so I have to go in between the chains to get to it... all they would have to do is turn it on while I'm working to kill my precious fingers (or my precious serial cable)! But that's why I unplug the pwms! To save my fingers.

(I usually plug them back in afterwards)

One (serious) suggestion for anyone who hasn't already done this:

The robot controller can often (read always) be hard to reach. If you plug serial cables into the program and tether ports and run them neatly to somewhere somewhat accessible on your bot it becomes much easier to plug in. You can even put them up high (depending on the bot) so you don't even have to bend over to plug them in! hows that for convenient!

Also, a rocker switch attached to the reset and program buttons in an easy to reach place is also a good idea.

- Toby

[nightrenegade00]

Nice pic. except we wouldn't be keeping our programmer out of the electronics. We'd be keeping other kids who might screw up the electronics out of there. Not mentioning names, there is a kid on our team (freshman this year) who has a lot of dedication and hard working skills. The only problem is that he gets annoying cause he talks a lot and likes to "fix" stuff on the robot. lol. that would be perfect for this kid. thanks for the idea.

-Crash

[Validius]

lol, on 1549 all of us except our 1 programmer are ellectrical and mechanical. I am learning C as well, not to replace him as he is brilliant but so i can write things in that he attributes to "operator error". In short...

If the ellectronics and mechanical both work, programmers blame THE DRIVERS!!!!!!