Jamie From Mythbusters Interview

[Conor Ryan]

Battle Bots and other robot fighting competitions is to First Like McDonalds to Hamburgers

They get the idea, and have the taste, but they are bad for you in the long run.

[Kevin Watson]

Originally Posted by cdr1122334455

Battle Bots and other robot fighting competitions is to First Like McDonalds to Hamburgers

They get the idea, and have the taste, but they are bad for you in the long run.

Please enlighten the clueless. How is BattlebotsIQ bad for you?

-Kevin

[Conor Ryan]

Originally Posted by Kevin Watson

Please enlighten the clueless. How is BattlebotsIQ bad for you?

-Kevin

besides basically ripping other robots apart, yes i know there is a lot of engineering involved with that, and teams do build apon each other, creating better drive trains, upgrading their weaponary, and changing other stuff around on their robot, they don't face the challenges that FIRST teams do. FIRST challenges teams to do that, and more. The game changes vastly each year rather than being pretty much the same with some minor tweaks and such. They both are great, theres no doubt and that, but BBIQ dpesn't challenge you in the same way FIRST does. I don't know if i'm getting my point accross, but what i'm trying to say is FIRST has more variation, rather than a consistant game. And variation over time leads to more innovation, which makes the world better.

But BBIQ is not bad for you, both provide an engineering and design experince thats tough to beat, and i may have been a little over the top in my statement earlier.

However i will say both games are missing one somewhat large part of the whole engineering experince, Hydraulics.

[Tristan Lall]

Originally Posted by cdr1122334455

However i will say both games are missing one somewhat large part of the whole engineering experince, Hydraulics.

Hydraulics are one hell of a mess, if something goes wrong. Ever had a pneumatic leak on the robot? Now imagine that the fluid in question was oil. (And high-pressure hydraulics raise some interesting safety concerns.)

Granted, they are useful and interesting, just probably impractical for FIRST's purposes.

[Billfred]

Alright, I know the odds of this happening are astronomical. However, picture this.

Lately, signs point to FIRST being on more of an upswing than in the past, what with the Radioshack deal and all. Battlebots has declined significantly since their contract with Comedy Central ran out. However, both have similar construction requirements and similar goals...

Originally Posted by http://www.battlebotsiq.com/manage.aboutbbiq.php

Through the process of robot building, student's imaginations are captured as they design, build and compete with their own robotic creations; and through this hands-on effort students gain practical knowledge of math, science, engineering and manufacturing.

Originally Posted by http://www.usfirst.org/about/

FIRST (For Inspiration and Recognition of Science and Technology) is a multinational non-profit organization, that aspires to transform culture, making science, math, engineering, and technology as cool for kids as sports are today.

So what would be the result if the two different-but-similar causes were to join forces? I could see a BBIQ-style competition fitting in either alongside or slightly beyond the FRC we know and love right now. Why place the BBIQ competition beyond FRC? As I understand it from Nathan Pell from 1083 (who built a robot this year for both), you've got in BBIQ a scenario where you start with nothing (save having the Isaac control system mandated). From there, you're on your own--you search for and choose motors and pneumatics and everything else, for that matter. By allowing students to be exposed to and use these items that for whatever reason FIRST can't or shouldn't allow for its purposes, you're preparing them for a world that might not necessarily have four CIM motors or a limited cylinder list.

Put simply: Folks are going to do both things--so why not pool your resources for the good of both sides? Fit both under the same roof (in Atlanta, for example), and you would have a heck of a show. (BBIQ robots get a venue to show their accomplishments to the world, and FRC folks get exposure to a crowd that never would've seen them.)

This is just my rambling while I should work on my psychology paper--feel free to cheer or whack me upside the head about it.

[Wetzel]

Originally Posted by Billfred

This is just my rambling while I should work on my psychology paper--feel free to cheer or whack me upside the head about it.

Search before you post.



Wetzel

[Kevin Watson]

Originally Posted by cdr1122334455

besides basically ripping other robots apart...

And why is this a problem? The goal is to build a robust 'bot that can deal with the harsh environment of the battle box. This isn't any different than me taking my Mars-bound avionics and bolting it to a shake table to see if it'll survive the harsh environment of launch and entry, decent and landing. BattlebotsIQ just happens to be a whole lot more fun to watch.

Originally Posted by cdr1122334455

yes i know there is a lot of engineering involved with that, and teams do build apon each other, creating better drive trains, upgrading their weaponary, and changing other stuff around on their robot they don't face the challenges that FIRST teams do.

You're correct because BattlebotsIQ, in many ways, is much more challenging than FIRST Robotics. In FIRST you don't have to worry about moving 300 amps of current through your motors. In FIRST your welds don't have hold up to an impact from a 40 pound sharpened tool steel blade spinning at 2000 RPM...

It's getting tiresome listening to people bad-mouth BattleBotsIQ because it's deemed "violent". I was one of the judges at this years BattleBotsIQ event and I didn't witness anything violent. I did, however, witness hundreds of kids, parents, teachers and mentors having a lot of fun competing their robots against one another.

Originally Posted by cdr1122334455

However i will say both games are missing one somewhat large part of the whole engineering experince, Hydraulics.

Nope, Team P.S.I., a high school team from Colorado, showed up with a beautiful 'bot that had a 2500 PSI hydraulic claw. I had the great pleasure of helping them solve some electrical problems and later watch them compete.

-Kevin

Edit: Here are two zipped-up .avi movies of two different BBIQ bouts. The first, falcon-greenwave.avi [44.1 MB], is between "Falcon" and "Greenwave". Falcon is an incredibly sturdy 'bot that has a spinning drum. Greenwave has a spinning blade. We (the judges) awarded Greenwave the best engineered 'bot from a high school team (even though it burst into flames late in this match <grin>). The second movie, icewave-alakran.avi [40.5 MB], is between "Alakran" and "Icewave". Icewave has a 40 pound tool steel blade driven by a 15HP gas engine. Knowing that Icewave would self destruct if tipped over (as it did last year), the Alakran crew modified their 'bot to flip Icewave from a (hopefully) safe distance. These are just a couple of the incredible 'bots I saw this past weekend.

[Conor Ryan]

Originally Posted by Kevin Watson

And why is this a problem? The goal is to build a robust 'bot that can deal with the harsh environment of the battle box. This isn't any different than me taking my Mars-bound avionics and bolting it to a shake table to see if it'll survive the harsh environment of launch and entry, decent and landing. BattlebotsIQ just happens to be a whole lot more fun to watch.

You're correct because BattlebotsIQ, in many ways, is much more challenging than FIRST Robotics. In FIRST you don't have to worry about moving 300 amps of current through your motors. In FIRST your welds don't have hold up to an impact from a 40 pound sharpened tool steel blade spinning at 2000 RPM...

It's getting tiresome listening to people bad-mouth BattleBotsIQ because it's deemed "violent". I was one of the judges at this years BattleBotsIQ event and I didn't witness anything violent. I did, however, witness hundreds of kids, parents, teachers and mentors having a lot of fun competing their robots against one another.

Nope, Team P.S.I., a high school team from Colorado, showed up with a beautiful 'bot that had a 2500 PSI hydraulic claw. I had the great pleasure of helping them solve some electrical problems and later watch them compete.

-Kevin

Hmm the more i comapare these two competitions the more i see them on two ends of the spectrum in style of play. What BBIQ doesn't have FIRST has and Vice versa, but they also have their similarities, such as both competitions demand for Durable, High Quality, Innoation and High Craftsmanship in the robots. Neither competition isn't bad, in fact if there wasn't a team in your school you'd really need to weigh the possibiltities of what competition to join. But i've come out with this sort of verdict, BBIQ demands Durablility and strength over almost everything else whereas FIRST demands innovation over almost everything else. But you never know, stuff changes all the time and people have certain strengths they aim for in their robot.

As for some other stuff, thats really cool that they have hydralics, i think First is a little scared of having hydralic fluid all over the field, its a bit of a safety risk, i admire them for having it available in competition.

Two questions though,
1. how different were all the robots from each other? I'm pretty sure just from what i've seen that you can't get more variety in First than you can in BBIQ but i'd like you input on that.

2. how even is the play field between high budget teams verses newer teams with less money since you get to pick and choose your motors, or did they just put a spending limit on it?


just think for a minute, a hybrid competition for FRC and BBIQ....Fighting with Tetras?

[colt527]

Back to topic: From what he said in an online chat one day, he reads his mythbuster email and actually responds to it. But, you could try posting on the mythbusters forum because I know they respond to that, or at least someone pretending to be them do.

[Adam Y.]

As for some other stuff, thats really cool that they have hydralics, i think First is a little scared of having hydralic fluid all over the field, its a bit of a safety risk, i admire them for having it available in competition.

Hydralics is a bit more dangerous compared to pneumatics in terms of stored energy.

Originally Posted by colt527

Back to topic: From what he said in an online chat one day, he reads his mythbuster email and actually responds to it. But, you could try posting on the mythbusters forum because I know they respond to that, or at least someone pretending to be them do.

I actually got an email from them once. They said they are testing the myth of the personal jetpack. I can't wait to see that episode.

just think for a minute, a hybrid competition for FRC and BBIQ....Fighting with Tetras?

There is such a competition. It's called robot sumo. The robots have to find the other robot and push them out of the ring.

[PURPLE!]

WOAH WOAH WOAH!!!

back it up guys! Take battle bots back to the battlebotIQ thread will ya? Honestly enough I think Jamie would really like it.... you know what that means.... roboteers, start your typing...

[Babyhueyhnx]

Hey all, I emailed Jamie last week and he sent me a reply:

Phil,

Thank you for contacting me. I have known about FIRST for quite a while, and Grant Imahara, who is also a mentor for
a FIRST team, is a friend and co worker; he is a new addition to the Mythbusters group of builders here in San Francisco.
I believe, as I am writing this email he is at the Atlanta FIRST competition as a representative of Discovery and
Mythbusters. I would have gone as well except that I have had to do alot of promotional work for Discovery recently
and as we are shooting the show, I opted out for lack of time.

As to these kinds of competitions, for the record, I applaud all of them because they encourage young people to learn to
build and engineer. The events are a venue for bringing that engineering and labor to the public eye, as well
as providing motivation and direction. All of that is great. It happened at Battlebots, Robot Wars, it is happening at the
FIRST competitions. There is no other sport that requires such a wide range of skill and imagination.
I was fascinated with the evolution that I saw during the years I was competing - most of the bots
evolved into spinners or wedges (myself being the or one of the originators of the spinner) however that natural selection into
those areas was also unfortunate in a way because of the demolition derby flavor of the competitions that ensued - and
the resulting discontinuance of the tv show. It was telling that the producers of the show had to do desparate things like
get builders into hot tubs with Playboy bunnies to make the show interesting. That along with putting more and more intricate
obstacles in the arena.....
FIRST has an opportunity to carry on the sport of robotic competition, and the types of competitions and their rules will
determine the direction and longevity of the sport. Seems to me that it is doing a fair job of that, and the fact that it is a
competition first and not a tv show is a good thing.
I would encourage the organizers of the sport to continue to be aware of the need for diversity - I think the comparison of the sport to nature, and the need
nature has to maintain diversity, is really powerful.

Mythbusters is also doing its part to encourage young people to be interested in the sciences and engineering - something
we are very happy about.

Feel free to post this to the forum or wherever, kudos to you and FIRST for your hard work and contribution.

Best regards
Jamie

[Rombus]

Originally Posted by Babyhueyhnx

Hey all, I emailed Jamie last week and he sent me a reply:

This is why i love MythBusters, they take the time to answer there fans, and they take a very good approach to what they do. I hope one day I'm lucky enough to have a job sorta like theres More robotics oriented though

[Tazlikesrobots]

Wow! I'd love to see him be a judge at a competition.

[Adam Y.]

Thank you for contacting me. I have known about FIRST for quite a while, and Grant Imahara, who is also a mentor for
a FIRST team, is a friend and co worker; he is a new addition to the Mythbusters group of builders here in San Francisco.
I believe, as I am writing this email he is at the Atlanta FIRST competition as a representative of Discovery and
Mythbusters. I would have gone as well except that I have had to do alot of promotional work for Discovery recently
and as we are shooting the show, I opted out for lack of time.

Wow. They working with Grant Imahara of Industrial Light and Magic. He helped build R2D2. I also have his book lying around here somewhere. Well... tt's official. I keep track of engineers like sports people keep track of their favorite players.