Cheering, standing ovations, and required team actions during matches and awards

[Kevin Kolodziej]

Originally Posted by Andy Baker

If you find me at a competition and my grandma is sitting behind me, please take the time to kick me in the butt. I would not have my grandma sitting behind me. That would be rude. I would make sure she had a great seat, where I could sit next to her (when I was not pulled away to responsibilities), and where she would not have to sit behind someone who wanted to stand up and cheer. It would be my job to find her an appropriate seat, not inconvenience others in front of her to ask them not to cheer for their team.

Also... if someone I did not know had a grandma (or a person who had a physical limitation in getting up and down) who sat behind me during an awards ceremony, I would turn around and say to this person: "Our team will be standing up, cheering for the other teams who win awards. If you don't like this, I will offer my services to find you a better view to watch the ceremony. You can even sit in the front of our section. By the way, what would you like to drink? I'll buy."

In my opinion, I think that it is more gracious to stand and cheer for your fellow FIRSTers in comparison to obeying the people behind you who simply don't want to stand and cheer. If they don't like the view, then they can move to a better seat.

Andy B.

Unfortunately, not everyone is Andy Baker. If everyone had this mindset, there would be far fewer problems.

I fall into the "Go nuts during awards, sit during matches" category.

At every event we've been to, my father sets up his video camera at the top of his tripod in the top row of seats (so its height does not block anyone because anyone behind him would be standing on the mezzanine) in an attempt to see over the rest of the crowd. Usually it works alright, but not always.

My parents are fairly able to stand if necessary, but they've been sitting with elderly spectators many times this year. At Midwest, there were a couple incidents where both students and mentors ignored their polite requests for a clear view. I believe Atlanta was much better.

At EPCOT, there were two set-ups that I remember: A) Team cheering area at the front of the stage for teams competing in that match, standing, with a raised stage. B) Team cheering area at the front of the stage for teams competing in that match, kneeling, with a non-raised stage. Option B was painful because kneeling on AstroTurf isn't fun, but the staff ensured that you knelt or you were tossed out (bad memories of incidents around me...). Option A seemed to work very well. With this in mind, I present the following solutions:

1. Reserve the front section of seats for elderly people and other video-tapers that do not have access to the field. Scouts can be to the sides of them (since they need in and out access) or behind them. I'm talking about the front 4 rows all the way across the stands...that should be more than enough space and doesn't put teams back that far.

2. Give teams access to the floor and provide bleachers of some sort against the seating wall. That way, its below the seating level of view, is directly in front of the field for clear views, and gives everyone a chance to go on the floor of the dome (its a big deal to some!).

Personally, I love the second option, but there are a few problems. Increased team movement is the biggest, but there are typically 3 minutes of dead time between matches, which is more than enough for 6 teams to move out and 6 to replace them. Maybe there can be an "on-deck" seating area off to the side behind the reserved seating mentioned in "1". Another problem is more staff in the aisles and seats to keep teams moving. Give them a seat, however, and it shouldn't be much of a problem.

Sorry for the long post,

Kev

[Lisa Rodriguez]

I am a firm believer in the "sit down during matches" theory. In the past, my team had decided to show spirit by standing the whole time, when no one was behind us. However, in Atlanta, we got the front seats, and stood up for cheering, then i promptly sat once we were done being announced, to allow those behind me to see. I was questioned as to why I wasn't standing like the rest of the team, and i politely answered that it's rude to block other people's views of the field whether or not it's our match, many people, scouts included need/want to see the match. The adults then had everyone else sit down once we were done cheering, for every match. You CAN cheer sitting down, but those behind you CAN'T see when you cheer standing up.
First wants to become spectator friendly...how friendly is it when you can't see the field?
I believe that spirit has slightly decreased since 02 (when i started) but that may be purely due to changed seating arrangement. In 02, everyone sat with their team, no 2 reps, and everyone was near(ish) to the stage, not as spread out as the dome. I also believe that less people are coming, more teams, but less people, as it costs more to travel, go to championships, etc. But there's still plenty of spirit (as long as MOE's there )
Either way I'm coming back to volunteer next year!!

[SuperJake]

Originally Posted by Keiko173

I believe that spirit has slightly decreased since 02 (when i started) but that may be purely due to changed seating arrangement. In 02, everyone sat with their team, no 2 reps, and everyone was near(ish) to the stage, not as spread out as the dome. I also believe that less people are coming, more teams, but less people, as it costs more to travel, go to championships, etc. But there's still plenty of spirit (as long as MOE's there )
Either way I'm coming back to volunteer next year!!

We like to think the reason FIRST implemented the 2 reps per team rule because in 2002 when MOE won the spirit award at nationals in Orlando, the ENTIRE team went up to the stage. We weren't expecting anything, so (naturally) we were in the back on the risers. It must have taken 20min to get everyone down there to the stage. 2003 was the first year only 2 reps were allowed to go to the stage.

[tckma]

Originally Posted by Keiko173

I believe that spirit has slightly decreased since 02 (when i started) but that may be purely due to changed seating arrangement. In 02, everyone sat with their team, no 2 reps, and everyone was near(ish) to the stage, not as !

Oh definitely. I started in '02 as well, and felt the Disney arrangement was better suited to cheering -- but other than that, not much for it. I wasn't in Houston, so I can't speak to that, but I think the Dome's a better setup overall than Disney.

I like the UTC regional setup versus the Manchester regional, it allows you to get right up front and cheer on your team, and the people sitting down can still see.

If they could find something like that for championships (however, with the sheer number of teams involved, I doubt it) -- it would be ideal.

[Tiki]

I personally disliked the UTC setup, unless you were in the back,you couldn't get a halfway decent looking view of your robot. At that regional, the best you could get was a side view, which was not much help at all. Sure you could get right up close and cheer for your robot, but it was for a price: you couldnt get a good view of it.
At SPBLI, you could definitely go up and cheer for your robot and have a good view all at the same time! (I went right up to the stage, but I was always too busy to cheer, like the rest of my team).
To tell you guys the truth, I never cheered for anything. ever.

[KathieK]

Originally Posted by Tiki

To tell you guys the truth, I never cheered for anything. ever.

Sounds like a road trip to Long Island is in order! Moe, are you up for it? We'll grab TJ2 and Buzz and anyone else up this way that wants to teach Tiki and his teammates how to cheer! We'll tie them up and force them to learn FIRST cheers... oh, wait, I don't think mentors are allowed to tie up students... well, we'll have some of our spirited students tie them up, and force them to learn FIRST cheers... And to paraphrase the TechnoTicks, it will soon get in your blood!

[Wetzel]

I know when I'm in the stands with a team, I'll stand and deliver a large amount of noise during introductions, then sit down during the match. If something exciting happens though, I've been known to stand up.

Go to a football game. Most of the time people sit, but when the running back breaks lose and gains major yardage, people stand. I see the running back breaking for the end zone analogous to tetras going slinky.

Wetzel

[Al Skierkiewicz]

When I stand for awards, it is because someone I know has just been presented with a coveted award. Since I apparantly know everyone, I stand for every team that receives an award. Sorry, but that is the way I have done it for almost a decade now. When my team stands with me, my friends receiving their award, have no doubt that I and my team are behind them. If you think I am doing this to be noticed, I am not. I am trying to focus attention on the team, the students and mentors, who are rightfullly receiving the award and who deserve the support of all teams.
If you are behind me when my team plays, you may see me sit down for the match or I may remain standing during the match. Sorry if you are behind me, I will sit down eventually, I am old you know. There is no one I have met in FIRST who intenetionally blocks anothers view of the field. As sure as a robot uses a battery, someone will stand during the competition. Givens do not need solutions.

[b-rant]

Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz

There is no one I have met in FIRST who intenetionally blocks anothers view of the field. As sure as a robot uses a battery, someone will stand during the competition. Givens do not need solutions.

beautifully written statement

[Ryan Dognaux]

Originally Posted by Tiki

To tell you guys the truth, I never cheered for anything. ever.

Post Edit.

Cheering is natural, there is nothing wrong with it. Try it sometime.

[Daniel Brim]

Well, what if the person behind you is a FIRST investor. As you've seen, new companies are investing in FIRST (like Caterpillar for example). They invest in what goes is on the field, not the back of your head. Of course, they also invest in the transformation of the youth, but I'm sure they would have a better and more exciting experience (and therefore they are more likely to invest) if they actually see the fields.

Givens need solutions if they are a problem.

-Daniel

[SuperJake]

Originally Posted by DanielBCR

Wel, what if the person behind you is a FIRST investor. As you've seen, new companies are investing in FIRST (like Caterpillar for example). They invest in what goes is on the field, not the back of your head. Of course, they also invest in the transformation of the youth, but I'm sure they would have a better and more exciting experience (and therefore they are more likely to invest) if they actually see the fields.

Givens need solutions if they are a problem.

-Daniel

First off, if someone is thinking about giving money to FIRST, then there is already a FIRST Staffer taking that person around and showing them everything. When they watch the matches, they are in the VIP suites or the VIP seating area.

Secondly, if someone from the public is viewing an event and happen to be sitting behind one of these spirited teams, that team's spirit is going to start effecting the person from the general public. Seeing students really excited about science and engineering is something that FIRST highlights all the time. Now during a match, if the students in front of you start jumping up and down while screaming... well something exciting is happening. That will draw the attention from the person behind you, they will stand up, see the exciting thing, then get all excited also. It is a form of interaction that is inherent in human nature. When excitement is all around you, you tend to get excited, too.

However as the old saying goes: there are exceptions to the rule, as demonstrated in this thread.

[AmyPrib]

Originally Posted by DanielBCR

Wel, what if the person behind you is a FIRST investor. As you've seen, new companies are investing in FIRST (like Caterpillar for example). They invest in what goes is on the field, not the back of your head. Of course, they also invest in the transformation of the youth, but I'm sure they would have a better and more exciting experience (and therefore they are more likely to invest) if they actually see the fields.

Givens need solutions if they are a problem.

-Daniel

At Boilermaker we sectioned off a a few rows right behind the scoring table for "invited guests" , judges, and the like. There was space for about 50 people maybe, and it was always full. This included all the CAT people that were there. They had a pretty unobstructed view of the field. This wouldn't be hard to do at most places if the regionals put that much effort into attracting investors and execs and VIPs. I think those investors would like to see the excitement this brings to the cheering kids, which would make them more likely to invest... Granted, that doesn't mean people can't be polite and sit... it goes both ways...We just all deal with it.

I would think that typically these guests are targeted and invited to attend by teams or the planning committees, so sectioning off a good viewing area for them shouldn't be too hard. If it's arena style, where seating starts above floor level, even easier, since VIPs are probably allowed on ground level.

[Kevin Sevcik]

Since things seem to be getting taken to the extreme in one direction, I present the anecdote of team SuperSpirit. This is a really incredibly spirited team. They fill up several rows all the way across a section of seats right in the middle. They're always standing and cheering during matches and awards no matter who's up there. In fact, they're so enthused that they just can't sit down. They figure standing is a sign of respect, so they can't bear to sit down if Woodie, Dean, or a sponsor is giving a speech, so they basically end up standing during the entire awards ceremony and cheering when appropriate. Surely sponsors, mentors, and teams sitting around and especially behind this team would be completely awed by this show of respect.

Yes, yes, it is an extreme example. I just wanted to use it to illustrate what I feel is the fundamental thing here. For the vast majority here, the above example is rude, and so is the opposite example of a team never standing. The former because it's apparently completely inconsiderate of those around them, and the latter because it's not respectful of the teams, etc. So obviously a balance should be struck between your level of enthusiasm and consideration for people around. This goes both ways, of course. Teams wishing to stand a lot should try to put themselves in a position to not inconvenience a lot of people or should check with everyone around them to see if it's okay. People that don't want to stand should check with teams near where they're planning to sit and see if they're planning on standing a lot. People that don't want to take the time checking with people around them should hedge their bets and be willing to moderate their standing/not-standing activities. Granted, this is a perfect world solution, but thinking a bit about how you'll be affecting the people around you can only help. And finding out how they feel about it instead of assuming you know can help even more.

[Andy Baker]

Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik

Teams wishing to stand a lot should try to put themselves in a position to not inconvenience a lot of people or should check with everyone around them to see if it's okay. People that don't want to stand should check with teams near where they're planning to sit and see if they're planning on standing a lot. People that don't want to take the time checking with people around them should hedge their bets and be willing to moderate their standing/not-standing activities.

Carve it in stone. Frame it. Ship it. This is an excellent solution.

This puts the responsibility on both the sitters and the standers, encouraging friendly communication between these "Hatfields" and "McCoys".

Everyone needs to go up one post and give Kevin some rep points. Obviously, we don't all agree on this issue, but he has proposed a terrific compromise.

Andy B.