pic: Team 254 2006 Robot 1

[Veselin Kolev]

Awesome bot guys.

Why exactly are you not using the FP motors? 1072's drive is using 2 cims and 2 fps, and the drive we made team 100 is using 4 cims and 2 fp's, all with great success. Me and team 1072 are bringing up the tools to replace pinions, if you need anything done at SVR, just come on over and we'll be glad to help you guys out with this.

[Bill Gold]

Originally Posted by Veselin Kolev

Awesome bot guys.

Why exactly are you not using the FP motors? 1072's drive is using 2 cims and 2 fps, and the drive we made team 100 is using 4 cims and 2 fp's, all with great success. Me and team 1072 are bringing up the tools to replace pinions, if you need anything done at SVR, just come on over and we'll be glad to help you guys out with this.

Thanks for the offer, Veselin, but I think Cory was kind of vague in his explanation of why we weren't using the FPs on Saturday of the PNW Regional. They weren't taken off the robot because of some sort of mechanical failure that we couldn't deal with. We just decided that the cost / benefit tradeoff with either having the FPs or another component on the robot (due to the 120-pound weight constraint) didn't end up in the FP's favor; so off they came. No decision has been 100% decided on for SVR, though, so we'll see what happens there.

Also, I would say that the hopper by itself can easily hold 20-25 balls, along with having ~5-8 balls in the conveyor system in a match situation.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Veselin Kolev

Awesome bot guys.

Why exactly are you not using the FP motors? 1072's drive is using 2 cims and 2 fps, and the drive we made team 100 is using 4 cims and 2 fp's, all with great success. Me and team 1072 are bringing up the tools to replace pinions, if you need anything done at SVR, just come on over and we'll be glad to help you guys out with this.

we blew 3 FP motors.

1)we were drilling over the robot, and in our haste to get on the field, didn't blow the chips out of the bot. FP proceeds to catch fire.

2) We were replacing said FP, and in our haste to get back out on the field, we connected the FP leads into the conveyor. The driver had control over the conveyor, and the operator had control over the FP's, which were opposing the CIM, and got completely toasted.

3) The screws holding the FP to the AM planetary backed out, and the motor actually fell out of the gearbox. Turns out that while pulling FP motors off of spare AM planetaries, we swapped the mounting plate hardware accidentally, and ended up with screws that weren't loc-tited.

After that we took them both off the robot. By removing them we freed up weight that will hopefully allow us to keep our rear roller, add on the camera, and some other miscellaneous hardware.

[henryBsick]

Originally Posted by Cory

After that we took them both off the robot. We know we aren't going to win any pushing matches, but we can still play some good defense, due to driver skill. We can make it up the ramp just fine, so really, we don't need them at all. By removing them we freed up weight that will hopefully allow us to keep our rear roller, add on the camera, and re-add the aiming mechanism for the shooter.

Cory, four CI Ms won't ever stall on that robot. The FP's won't determine the winner of a pushing match, the friction applied to the ground via those 6 hot wheels will.

[Tom Bottiglieri]

Originally Posted by Henry_222

Cory, four CI Ms won't ever stall on that robot. The FP's won't determine the winner of a pushing match, the friction applied to the ground via those 6 hot wheels will.

Yes, but if both bots are able to put the power to the floor (with all these traction wheels floating around, the tables are a little more even), that FP will give you a boost. Not to mention the increased efficieny in acceleration.

[Veselin Kolev]

Originally Posted by Henry_222

Cory, four CI Ms won't ever stall on that robot. The FP's won't determine the winner of a pushing match, the friction applied to the ground via those 6 hot wheels will.

I think they're only using two CIMs for drive now.

[henryBsick]

Originally Posted by Veselin Kolev

I think they're only using two CIMs for drive now.

Ah, my mistake. Regardless... I have not seen a CIM stall in FIRST. EVER.

Originally Posted by Tom Bottiglieri

Yes, but if both bots are able to put the power to the floor (with all these traction wheels floating around, the tables are a little more even), that FP will give you a boost. Not to mention the increased efficieny in acceleration.

I disagree. If both robots have the same amount of traction, the bot with more ability to turn the wheels will do just that, turn the wheels. A slightly mocked down version of burning out. I believe the lower RPMs help in a situation like that, putting more grip to the floor. Plus the higher load CIM is running more efficiently.

Just for the record... adding motors normally does not increase pushing ability, just range of top speed.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Henry_222

Just for the record... adding motors normally does not increase pushing ability, just range of top speed.

It most certainly does increase pushing ability. More motors means more torque, which as long as you haven't exceeded friction*Normal Force means more pushing ability.

If you meant to say it increases pushing ability at higher speeds, you'd be correct, but it definitely does not increase the top speed of the robot.

[henryBsick]

Originally Posted by Cory

It most certainly does increase pushing ability. More motors means more torque, which as long as you haven't exceeded friction*Normal Force means more pushing ability.

If you meant to say it increases pushing ability at higher speeds, you'd be correct, but it definitely does not increase the top speed of the robot.

I really am getting into a bad habit of not thinking things through, sorry. I meant it gives the potential for a higher speed. More torque due to more motors leads to the ability to turn a higher gear ratio resulting in a higher output speed.

More motors does mean more torque, but if you aren't reaching stall torque to begin with, what is the point of adding more torque? It doesn't improve anything in said situation.

[sanddrag]

Originally Posted by Henry_222

More motors does mean more torque, but if you aren't reaching stall torque to begin with, what is the point of adding more torque? It doesn't improve anything in said situation.

It is quite easy to reach the limit of the electrical system, thus tripping breakers. More motors means lower current draw per motor since they are sharing the load.

[henryBsick]

Originally Posted by sanddrag

It is quite easy to reach the limit of the electrical system, thus tripping breakers. More motors means lower current draw per motor since they are sharing the load.

Where was it mentioned that team 254 had breaker problems with the single CIM per side setup? Another thing I have never seen in FIRST although very possible. I remember back to 03 though, those drills would trip 40's regularly

[sanddrag]

While they didn't mention it, I can't see how they wouldn't. With a high gear of 15 fps and a COF of probably 1.1 or 1.2, and a stall current of over 100 amps, it would be next to impossible to not trip a breaker. Perhaps if you never encountered an obstacle. But as soon as you came up against another robot. Low gear will help, but it still may be possibel to trip it. I don't know. I could runt he numbers but I have no immediate desire to because more is merrier when it comes to motors.

[henryBsick]

Originally Posted by sanddrag

While they didn't mention it, I can't see how they wouldn't. With a high gear of 15 fps and a COF of probably 1.1 or 1.2, and a stall current of over 100 amps, it would be next to impossible to not trip a breaker. Perhaps if you never encountered an obstacle. But as soon as you came up against another robot. Low gear will help, but it still may be possibel to trip it. I don't know. I could runt he numbers but I have no immediate desire to because more is merrier when it comes to motors.

Sure it would, 15 fps is outrageous for one CIM/ side to handle well. But when we are talking about pushing and low gear, I hold my claims to be true.

[Adrian Santos]

Amazing machine, guys...makes me want to come out of retirement

Good luck this season, and I'll be at SVR to see this monster in person.