Percentage of Work Done by Students.

[techtiger1]

On a team where 100% of the design and 80 to 90% of the work is done by students, where still inspired. Our engineers look over and advise our designs they don't change or redesign. We ask questions and get answers from our engineers,we use the engineers and mentors as a guide. Although FIRST has some teams that have professionally engineered designs, the mission of a FIRST team should not to be to win but inspire no matter who builds your robot. OH by the way if you talk to the Pink kids which I encourage, they design most of that robot. Some finer points of design are done by there engineers which is true I think for most teams with engineers but the better part of it is designed by the kids. As far as the machining and fabrication part of it there mentors do that because of insurance and other reasons most of them can't get into NASA's machine shop to help or they would be. This is just what I know from talking to the PINK kids and I really don't like when people jump on 233 because there are other teams out there too that have the same sophistication of design as 233. Anyway I would just like to say inspiration comes from many sources and life isn't fair welcome to the real world kids.

My two and half cents,
Drew

[LightWaves1636]

Originally Posted by lukevanoort

I agree with the idea that the mentors should only really come in if you're doing something stupid, or with general advice like, "You might want to try putting a washer on that", or "watch out for side loads on those bearings." In fact, the parts that were mostly student built (drivetrain, electrical) this year were the most reliable, finished the quickest, and performed the best. And, I know I learned more and was more inspired by "have you thought about using and X because Y and Z", than "here's what we're going to do." And, if inspiration isn't the point what is?

Hey, that's what we did, we only called in our mentors if we needed help, mostly it was programming because except the captain, no one knows programming, I have little knowledge but just enough to work in user_routines. Autonomous I can't do.

[Daniel Morse]

Team 213 was built mechanically 85% by the students with only advising input from the engineers. I was one of the primary Inventor designers on the team, and I took a part devised from the brainstorming, formed a core group of students and started to work. We had a small amount of assistance from one engineer in the form of constructive feedback and a sounding board, but for the most part, I did most of the designing myself. The only team with more professional support was the drive train. The programming was a collaborative (50/50) effort between the engineers and the students. In previous years, we have much more engineer domination of the construction, but the last two years have been much more student oriented. I very much enjoy having this sort of setup, because when I look at the robot, I see our students as much as our engineers in the machine.

[Henry_Mareck]

I know that most of our team, including me are for student designed and built robots over engineer designed and built.
If its "inspiring" for a student to watch an engineer build a robot, try actaully letting the student design and built the robot. It takes inspiring to the next level. If your team is going to have engineer help and laser or water jet cutting and all that, make sure that the students are involved and learning, and that they understand what is happening. Thats the important part.

[Koko Ed]

This is such a tiresome subject.
I know teams that have all the work done by students and I know teams that have work done by the mentors and I know teams that split it up evenly. So many teams do these things so many dfferent ways and they can still be awesome right?
Last weekend at FLR there was a situation where a veteran team was openly disrespected by another tema because of this. I would never openly judge a team because of who builds the robot and to shun them is just insane.
I don't know the exact percentage on our team ( about 50/50 far as I know)but basically we just have people work on the bot to get it done and not obsess over who did what because we all have to get the robot finished so we all are going to work towards that goal. If anyone has issue with us because of how we work on the robot that is their issue, not ours.

[Jack Jones]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Koko Ed again.

Ed - you are a beacon.

[team1611]

100% designed by the students. all of the work done by students except for the welding and a very small amount of machine work.

[AcesPease]

I don't have any percentages, but the amount of student design, build and maintenance on our robots has increased dramatically since 2002. We also get a lot of help from mentors. Our lead engineering mentor (Woodie Flowers winner Dave Leenhouts) insists on a fairly complete design cycle: Brainstorming, testing ideas with prototypes, designing the parts using Autodesk, making the parts and assembling the robot. During this process there is a lot of interaction between students, engineers and machinists. That interaction is what I see as inspiring our students the most. Teaching students about interacting with adults before they graduate is one of the most surprising benefits of the FIRST program.

BTW Students have all but taken over the management of our team activities

[Libby K]

hah. our team was 100% students.

we, as rookies, had problems with engineers and funding.

so we just did it all (as per my signature)

Its fairly and equally designed out and worked on by everyone on our team (meaning students and mentors). The students on my team do alot of work on it. Even from one year being on electrical subteam and mechanical subteam, i remember alot of the tools i learned and used (which is really good from me hehe), and still alot of the electrical based things. Its really good when students do alot of the majority of the work, but while getting alot of help by engineers or mentors. They learn something new every day that they work and put their effort into. Its really exciting.

-Court-

[Matt Reiland]

I don't know about the rest of you but our robot was 100% built by team 226. Our team consists of students, parents, teachers, engineers, and alumni.

In most teams, usually you win or lose as a team not as a subset of the group. The one thing I hate more than anything is working on a team and having others in the team taking all the credit. As I say every year, so you built your robot with just students, yippee, woo hooo, you built it totally with engineers or mentors, fantastic, a mix of both..... super duper. I really, really, really don't care. At least in my business one of the key things that the executive director at GM always tells us is that the customer doesn't care about which brand of PLC or robot we use to build cars or whose specification we used to program the PLC's. The customer does however care about the end product not necessarily how we got there. Just a little food for thought.

Are there any other teams out there that built there robot as a TEAM???

[blaskay16]

I can honestly say that team 815 was 100% designed and built by the students and we almost won the GLR im extremly prouond of my team

[dlavery]

Originally Posted by Matt Reiland

I don't know about the rest of you but our robot was 100% built by team 226. Our team consists of students, parents, teachers, engineers, and alumni.

In most teams, usually you win or lose as a team not as a subset of the group. The one thing I hate more than anything is working on a team and having others in the team taking all the credit. As I say every year, so you built your robot with just students, yippee, woo hooo, you built it totally with engineers or mentors, fantastic, a mix of both..... super duper. I really, really, really don't care. At least in my business one of the key things that the executive director at GM always tells us is that the customer doesn't care about which brand of PLC or robot we use to build cars or whose specification we used to program the PLC's. The customer does however care about the end product not necessarily how we got there. Just a little food for thought.

Read this message. Read it again. Study it. Engrave it in brass, and staple it to your forehead. This is a message of wisdom from someone that "gets it."

[Chris Fultz]

Originally Posted by Matt Reiland

I don't know about the rest of you but our robot was 100% built by team 226. Our team consists of students, parents, teachers, engineers, and alumni.

In most teams, usually you win or lose as a team not as a subset of the group. The one thing I hate more than anything is working on a team and having others in the team taking all the credit.

Are there any other teams out there that built there robot as a TEAM???

Matt,

You beat me to the post / thought. I really couldn't tell you what percentage of our robot is student built and engineer / adult built. We all work together, through brainstorming, drawings on chalk boards, prototypes, Inventor, making parts and putting things together. Ideas fly everywhere and the best ones land on the robot and it would be hard to define who suggested what. There are usually several hands on wrenches and drills and machines and no one really worries about whose hands they are, as long as they are trained in how to use the tool properly.

We work as a team, win or lose as a team, and continue to grow and develop as a team. I would welcome the perspective of some of our current or alumni students on this topic.

[David Hoff]

Originally Posted by Chris Fultz

We work as a team, win or lose as a team, and continue to grow and develop as a team. I would welcome the perspective of some of our current or alumni students on this topic.

I would completely agree with you Chris. Practically every part on our robot has been built by engineers and students, not just one or the other. We, the students, are ambitious and eager to do as much as we can, but we wouldn't learn the correct processes, techniques, or anything new without the guidance of the engineers and mentors.

Cyber Blue doesn't only use this concept for our manufacturing subteam. Our website, public relations, electronics, and other subteams are all collaborations of our students and mentors.