Girls on FIRST teams

[vivek16]

i believe that it should not matter the gender of a person but rather their ability. I also think that their how advanced their ability is should not be based on their gender. i find it incredibly annoying when they say that a woman was the first female to do something because someone already did it and in my mind just by mentioning that they were the first woman to do it is degrading their accomplishment.

and overall i thin kfirster are generally accepting toward this.

just my 2 cents

vivek

[Koko Ed]

In my six years in FIRST my team has always leaned towards having more girls than boys but this year was the first time we had more boys than girls.
We encourage all of our kids to work on the robot. To help with the promotion of th eteam. To participate in team spirit and to reach for any goal they think they can achieve regardless of race, creed or sex. The last couple of years our coaches have been girls but the last girl driver we had was Adrienne back in 2002. The Lopez boys just have a stranglehoild on the job. Can't argue with results.
I cannot think of any job that is geared towards the students (leadership roles and finances are handled byt he adults) that is denied to any of them. You cannot inspire them if you don't enable them.

[sanddrag]

A 10th grade girl on 696 designed the frame, wheels, and drive system, and performs routine maintainance and inspection and the occassional repair on it as well.

[MGoelz]

Speaking for myself, I know that it probably would have taken me longer to find out about the robotics team at the high school, had it not been for the invite I received to participate in VEX at the IRI over the summer of 2005. As soon as I walked into the room, I was excited. I had never heard or seen anything like it before. I love math and science anyway, so I was intrigued. The point of this, however, is that I know I would have finally wanted to join at the high school, but it certainly would not have been in my freshman year.

After the summer VEX, I joined for the pilot season for the team they decided to start at our middle school. I was in eighth grade. Our team also invited some of the members of the VEX team to observe during the FRC build season at the high school. I was privileged to be able to take advantage of this opportunity. I knew I loved it and I was able to learn a lot, simply by having that time to watch, and feel out what everyone was doing.

All of these things made me feel more comfortable in this area and I had no problem adjusting to the high school team.

I think that if robotics and the FIRST programs were introduced to girls before they got to high school, they would at least want to investigate it and see what it is all about. Not only girls; it would benefit everyone to be informed about these programs beforehand. I know that it helped me and I'm sure there are others that feel the same.

Despite these efforts our team has made, we still have about 8 girls and 26 guys. I don't feel under-represented or anything, simply because our team doesn't treat the girls any differently when it comes to being involved with the robot. I am appreciative of this; I have never been one to like special attention, especially the boys and girls thing, because I don't feel like either gender has an advantage over the other. We all learn, and have the opportunity to learn. Boys aren't naturally born knowing all about math and science, and girls don't come into the world educated on fashion and style and those types of things.

Of course, I'm not the girly girl, but still, I know that it takes the will and desire to want to learn to accomplish anything. It just depends on what you're interested in, what you're willing to learn, the time you're willing to commit, and opportunities you're willing to take.

[Monochron]

I don't think the girls on our team share your opinion of patronism, but Katie is almost certain to be captain next year. (We're having our election tomorrow *cross fingers*)
While not involved in the actual building of the robot most of our girls exemplify the other aspects to a robotics team. Katie is currently the head of our Scrapbooking sub-team and continues to make fantastic documentations of our year. They work with talking to judges and organizing some community events.

While they are not actively involved in the robot itself they are almost solely responsible for our image and representation of our team (along with one other female mentor)

They don't find it demeaning when commented on, but also don't see their role (and neither do we) as really separate from the team or as if we have allowed them any opportunity. They simply saw what they wanted to do in our team and made it happen.

[falconmaster]

Originally Posted by Monochron

I don't think the girls on our team share your opinion of patronism, but Katie is almost certain to be captain next year. (We're having our election tomorrow *cross fingers*)
While not involved in the actual building of the robot most of our girls exemplify the other aspects to a robotics team. Katie is currently the head of our Scrapbooking sub-team and continues to make fantastic documentations of our year. They work with talking to judges and organizing some community events.

While they are not actively involved in the robot itself they are almost solely responsible for our image and representation of our team (along with one other female mentor)

They don't find it demeaning when commented on, but also don't see their role (and neither do we) as really separate from the team or as if we have allowed them any opportunity. They simply saw what they wanted to do in our team and made it happen.

The roles that you described are what our girls do traditionally as well and have been outstanding at doing it. In our "little experiment" we wanted the girls to try all the roles. It has been expressed to us over the years, that while they liked doing their "traditional" roles, they wanted to try something else. So we did and we learned a lot!!!!!!!!!!! Basically co-ed teams are not treated the same as all girl teams by many people, at least that was what we observed.

[Erin Rapacki]

Originally Posted by Monochron

While not involved in the actual building of the robot most of our girls exemplify the other aspects to a robotics team. Katie is currently the head of our Scrapbooking sub-team and continues to make fantastic documentations of our year. They work with talking to judges and organizing some community events.

While they are not actively involved in the robot itself they are almost solely responsible for our image and representation of our team (along with one other female mentor)

They don't find it demeaning when commented on, but also don't see their role (and neither do we) as really separate from the team or as if we have allowed them any opportunity. They simply saw what they wanted to do in our team and made it happen.

Hmmm, sounds familiar (happened in my own life!) However, do you think they may gain an interest in building the robot if they were given the chance? Also, if they don't accept the offer... "encourage" them to get involved in some design aspects? Girls are not likely to argue with guys over design, they want to help out where they can, but think... they joined a ROBOTICS team. They are already so close, don't let them miss out on the chance to discover themselves.

Not picking on you specfically, see my posts in the other thread. As a "marketing/program" girl in FIRST for five years, only now discovering that robot design and machining is fun and my design ideas are original and worth something... my new purpose is to make sure the girls on FIRST teams also get the chance to be inspired, and don't sell themselves short like many women in this world do.

[Monochron]

Originally Posted by Erin Rapacki

Hmmm, sounds familiar (happened in my own life!) However, do you think they may gain an interest in building the robot if they were given the chance? Also, if they don't accept the offer... "encourage" them to get involved in some design aspects? Girls are not likely to argue with guys over design, they want to help out where they can, but think... they joined a ROBOTICS team. They are already so close, don't let them miss out on the chance to discover themselves.

We have one girl actively involved on building the robot because she wanted to. She does a good job, but nobody really sees it as "wow, that girl is good at robotics" but more as "That student did a good job with that arm."

It almost seems in your post (and I'm sure this was not your intention at all) that you are portraying girls as objects that you have to initiate into engineering. We certainly give them the chance to work on the robot but its just not their thing.
Its more like "We have 5 students on our team who don't work on the actual robot; 3 happen to be girls."

There's no real difference in opportunity, they just chose not to do that aspect of the team.

[Erin Rapacki]

Originally Posted by Monochron

We have one girl actively involved on building the robot because she wanted to. She does a good job, but nobody really sees it as "wow, that girl is good at robotics" but more as "That student did a good job with that arm."

It almost seems in your post (and I'm sure this was not your intention at all) that you are portraying girls as objects that you have to initiate into engineering. We certainly give them the chance to work on the robot but its just not their thing.
Its more like "We have 5 students on our team who don't work on the actual robot; 3 happen to be girls."

There's no real difference in opportunity, they just chose not to do that aspect of the team.

Yes, that's entirely my point! Girls have to be initiated into engineering, and what may seem to be "not their thing" may actually be a layer of extreme interest covered up by a lack of self confidence. Ultimately, once they've gained confidence in their ideas... it won't matter that they're a girl, they'll give technical input no matter what.

As for getting design ideas, they need to own some kind of design aspect... even if its a pre-season thing or a small part of the robot. It takes ownership of something to finally "get it"...

It'll be a big push to get the ball rolling, but once it rolls... it flies. Try it.

[StephLee]

Originally Posted by Erin Rapacki

Yes, that's entirely my point! Girls have to be initiated into engineering, and what may seem to be "not their thing" may actually be a layer of extreme interest covered up by a lack of self confidence. Ultimately, once they've gained confidence in their ideas... it won't matter that they're a girl, they'll give technical input no matter what.

As for getting design ideas, they need to own some kind of design aspect... even if its a pre-season thing or a small part of the robot. It takes ownership of something to finally "get it"...

It'll be a big push to get the ball rolling, but once it rolls... it flies. Try it.

I'm not entirely sure I agree with the statement I bolded. In some cases, yes, it takes some kind of kick to get a girl interested or get past her conception of engineering as a "guys' thing". But doesn't it also often take a kick to get some of the guys interested or get them past the conception of robotics as a "nerd thing"?

I've never felt that robotics was "not my thing"; then again, I joined the team when none of us really had a clue what we were doing since it was our rookie year, so maybe I'm not the greatest example. However, I really don't like the implication that all girls need to be "pushed" into engineering, when some just kind of fall into it on their own - or even better, seek it out as a chance to learn something new. That's why a few of the girls on our team joined. (I personally joined because I had nothing better to do at the time - it hooked me just the same way as it hooked the guys on my team at the same time.)

[Pirate_Nelly354]

I am one of two girls on the our team. I'm the captain of the team and I usually don't like to show-off but if I'm speaking to someone about FIRST I will proudly say I'm the captain. Why? Cause it's like a big "haha" to the people that think girls can't do this or that. I totally totally totally hate it when some people think girls can't do something. And while on them team, I show them that girls can. I don't like the fundraising part [[though I have done it]], I like the hands-on stuffs. Doing construction rocks! It's so awesome! I love the jigsaw<3 Lovely, lovely tool =] I don't think the boys on the team give me a "special treatment" just cause I'm a girl, they seem me as just another team member. I like it that way.

[themagic8ball]

I haven't had time to read this whole thread (packing for ATL!) but I am all for girls on FIRST teams. I am currently dating one (one year today) and she is the marketing lead for our team. Her business skills are absolutely supberb. I think a lot of people miss the fact that there is more than mechanical on a FIRST team. We have females on each of our CDTS and they do just as much if not more work than the guys. Like someone said earlier, it really doesn't matter who you are as long as you are a team player and get the work done.

[Monochron]

Originally Posted by Erin Rapacki

Yes, that's entirely my point! Girls have to be initiated into engineering, and what may seem to be "not their thing" may actually be a layer of extreme interest covered up by a lack of self confidence. Ultimately, once they've gained confidence in their ideas... it won't matter that they're a girl, they'll give technical input no matter what.

It'll be a big push to get the ball rolling, but once it rolls... it flies. Try it.

What I meant was that it seems like you are saying that the only way to get girls involved is to initiate them force them to work on the robot.

Sorry for the confusion.

We do something similar to this but is more of a workshop in every aspect of the team where we force everyone to try each part. Everyone has to put together a scrapbook section for themselves, try some web design, wire some devices, and do actual work on last years robot.

Maybe the girls you attract to robotics are very shy, but the two that now work on our robot came because they wanted to work on a robot, not make designs or marketing assets for a team.
Now with some girls, and many boys on our team, they are intimidated by the prospect of building and would rather work elsewhere in scrapbooking or design. In that case initiation does help, but with the other two girls on our team, working with their hands on the robot isn't fun to them. They joined because their brothers were on the team and found what they do now to be more rewarding than robot work. This is the same with six other boys who do non-robot work as well.

While making them work on a robot might seem more a part of FIRST, they don't find that as fun as the work they do now that keeps their hands quite full.

[falconmaster]

The girls of 842 have commented on their experiences on the differences between when they attend regionals as a co-ed team and a regional as an all girls team.

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...t=56504&page=6

This thread has brought out some interesting things as well.
Take care All.

[ebarker]

I'm the chief mentor to 1311 Kell Robotics in Marietta. We are the team just down the street from the well known 1002 CircuitRunners of Marietta.

I could write a book on the issue of girls in robotics but I will try to hold it to a few key points. I also think the Kell - CircuitRunners (Wheeler High) scenario is a great study in two perfectly valid, yet very different ways to run a team.

Wheeler is an engineering and science magnet school. They draw students from all over the district, including our school, Kell High School. Their students are more likely to enter a team with some technical background and experience. Many FRC teams are like this, with experienced members working hard to do most if not all of the robot design and build, and the students take great pride in this. And rightly so.

The team I mentor is managed a little differently. A poor comparison would be like how a Habitat for Humanity build site is managed. If you have ever done H4H, you will see that you really don't have to know anything about building a house, in order to build the house. There are people working to make sure that the volunteers get to work immediately upon arrival.

We do several things to recruit and retain girls. First we talk about retention. Once they arrive in the shop, we immediately put them to work building or creating something. It is important that the senior team members, team leaders, and mentors keep the ball rolling so this can happen. You are trying to create a member that is "vested". If they leave that first day having built or contributed something, they are much more likely to return to make sure someone doesn't screw up their work, plus the general satisfaction of having really made something cool and different probably for the first time in their life.

Doing all this requires a few things of mentors and senior members. They have to allow the newbies to make some mistakes and burn up some material. They have to really be on the ball and provide bite sized tasks for the students to accomplish daily. It is also helpful to pair up mentors and high experience team members to mentor to the newbies and let the newbies do the work. That can be a little tough for high experience members to do.

You have to allow that you may not make the perfect robot. After all, what is your goal? To make the perfect robot, or have an impact on peoples lives? There is a tendency to make the robot the goal of this exercise. The robot is a lot of fun, but isn't the real reason FIRST exists.

I have to tell you a story here, a very important story. Because of our team goal was to seed 10th or higher at the regional. We also chose to not be a super bot, but just do something, anything well, and we also choose to spend time focusing on other things.

Because of this, we built a simple reliable rampbot. We seeded 9th, and was a regional finalist. It was because of the KISS principle. It required zero maintenance during seeding and during the elimination. The only thing done was we riveted a simple stiffener bracket between seeding and eliminations. The robot was so simple, we could not hang tubes. So it was do nothing and be a ramp, or try some defense. We tried defense, and got so good at it that we shut down some very awesomely powerfully tube hangers. We had a tube hanging gizmo but threw it aside 2 days before shipment. If we had kept our tube hanger on the robot we would have fiddled around with that piece of junk and distracted ourselves trying to play offense and wound up not doing anything well.

But back to your point, what started as a group of well mentored atomic operations executed by totally inexperienced newbies evolved into a well disciplined high performing team. The team leadership is entire girl. The robot is 2/3 built by girls., as is the team membership.

Closing back to the top of this posting, we started with the goal of immediate engagement, by having newbies start out building or doing something simple, and step by baby step, moving forward until we arrived as a regional finalist, with a Chairman's Award, and the UL Safety Award. It is a form of project management that gets you there. Don't overwhelm newbies with inexperienced newbies with challenges way more difficult than they can handle. The senior members/mentor need to handle that but always with the goal of raising up newbies into new senior members.

At the beginning of our build season, much of the team didn't even know what a crimp connector was or the difference between a bolt and gear. At midseason, they stopped and spent a 14 hour day mentoring to another team to build their robot and get them caught up equal to us at that midpoint. No chalk and talk, but hands on intensive learning. Our students were mentoring to students from another team.

I'm getting way off point here, but we are giving a presentation at the FIRST conferences in Atlanta this Thursday at 12 noon in Room C307 on the issue of recruiting girls into robotics and engineering.

From the conference notes, here are a things to think about:

VESTING: give newbies an opportunity to go home that very day and say "I made something really cool" (it has to be cool in their mind, not yours)

THE JUNGLE: like the jungle guide might say, when you invite a girl to attend a meeting, tell them they might get to see a real nerd, but don't worry, they are harmless

GUEST DAY: Invite girls to participate in a wide range of no-obligation one day team efforts as guests or affiliates.

MENTOR/COACH: Mentors need to make sure that newbies are not swept aside or ignored. Much like H4H, make sure that newbies do something rewarding and constructive.

ASK: Asking a girl to try robotics sometimes works. Putting the robot in the school lobby is not an recruiting effective tool.

SCHOOL SUPPORT: Ask the school to have a different teacher attend the build session every day, so that a lot of teachers will see what is going on. Teachers can be effective career influncers and motivators for some students.

NUMBERS: In a typical high school music program like band and orchestra, only 5% enter college with intentions of a music related major. Many robotics organizations recruit by inviting students to be an engineer. That is a little like asking a girl to marry you when you should be asking her out for a 1st date to go to a movie. My point is stop trying to turn them into an engineer at first contact.

You want to get them involved at a level they can be comfortable with. At best maybe they will get a PhD in engineering. If you do this right, maybe at worst they will have a total blast, and become a lifelong supporter of FIRST and education as it relates to science and math, etc.

Let's run some numbers. If you have 20 members on a team, the most you can get is 20 engineers. If you treat these 20 members as future career influencers, the effect is exponential. Each member will statistically influence 2.3 to hundreds of kids in the future, potentially creating hundreds of engineers.

TRIBALISM: Considering using the brand image of the school to support the team. With all due respect to our friends at Wheeler and many other schools, Kell has draped itself and promotes the school brand image. Same mascot, colors, cheers, etc. Just like football, soccer, and all the other sports.

Checkout this link:
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...highlight=1311

sorry for the rambling essay but it's late.

I want to EMPHASIZE one thing here. I and the other mentors didn't not build the robot. We taught, and mentored and discussed and argued and cajoled and use the Socratic method and the Flowers method and the Barker method, but the students built this robot.

We don't claim to be experts in anything but you are welcome to attend the FIRST Conferences at noon on Thursday. There is a fee to attend and tickets are available at the event from FIRST.