The Honor Code of FIRST

[Andy Baker]

Originally Posted by Tom Bottiglieri

Keep in mind that rules are not laws. Be careful with words like "illegal".
Also, some rules are meant to be broken; it keeps things progressing.

This is careless advice and should not be followed. Questioning a rule is fine. Stating that a rule should be changed is a freedom that we all have. If someone thinks a rule is wrong, they can argue their case properly and work hard to get it changed.

I hope this was what Tom was referring to, and just posted in haste.

Breaking a rule just because you think it is meant to be broken is not good advice.

Andy B.

[Tom Bottiglieri]

Originally Posted by Andy Baker

I hope this was what Tom was referring to, and just posted in haste.

Breaking a rule just because you think it is meant to be broken is not good advice.

I think my vagueness was confused for something else. Let me clear it up.

FIRST is supposed to inspire and prepare kids for a life and career in a science based profession. The last time I checked, the world wasn't "fair". People lie, cheat, and steal to get ahead in every aspect of life. I'm not saying this is justification to go out and break the rules; it is nothing even close to that. With that being said, people really just need to worry about themselves and their team. How far are you willing to push while still feeling comfortable? In reality, this is a question that only YOU are able to answer, and if you break the rules then prepare to suffer whatever consequences await.

What I do not like hearing about is the "vigilantism" that is going on at competitions. I don't care if someone broke every rule in the book... One team has absolutely no right to touch another teams property. Seriously, it's just a game. If everyone could just worry about how much fun they are having rather than how much they disagree with other teams, the program would be much better off.

[Dan Richardson]

Originally Posted by Tom Bottiglieri

I think my vagueness was confused for something else. Let me clear it up.

FIRST is supposed to inspire and prepare kids for a life and career in a science based profession. The last time I checked, the world wasn't "fair". People lie, cheat, and steal to get ahead in every aspect of life. I'm not saying this is justification to go out and break the rules; it is nothing even close to that. With that being said, people really just need to worry about themselves and their team. How far are you willing to push while still feeling comfortable? In reality, this is a question that only YOU are able to answer, and if you break the rules then prepare to suffer whatever consequences await.

What I do not like hearing about is the "vigilantism" that is going on at competitions. I don't care if someone broke every rule in the book... One team has absolutely no right to touch another teams property. Seriously, it's just a game. If everyone could just worry about how much fun they are having rather than how much they disagree with other teams, the program would be much better off.

Tho I conquer with the statement is always good to push the envelope I believe you have to stay within the rules and if you don't you better be prepared to face the consequences by whoever they come from.

If a team breaks every rule in the book then you better make sure they are held accountable. If you don't you taint the validity of the program it becomes a free for all the program disentegrates. Its absolutely foolish to just let teams go unchecked.

The fact of the matter is often times those responsible for enforcing the rules don't know them. Often times ( not every case ) robot inspectors, referees and field managers make up their own rules or don't know the specifics, mainly because they are improperly trained. Now granted many of them are innocent mistakes maybe a rule changed from year to year and made an honest mistake, but I strongly believe its responsibility of teams and volunteers to resectfully and properly rectify these problems. Otherwise the teams you compete against are cheated out a fair and balanced competitions.

I learned an important rule of thumb this year, as much as you want teams to do the right thing often they do not. Now acting like a vigilanty and pulling wires out of a robot to break it would be bad. Going through the proper channels approaching them with the rule book or making the robot inspector aware of the issue, that is what should be done. Many broken rules are accidental, misinterpretation of a rule, or failure to get all updates. But when faced with their rule breaking in the middle of competition its their reaction to this confrontation that reflects heavily on their honor and their integrity. If they refuse to acknowledge the rule, then it should be brought to the proper authorities, if they still fail to acknowledge I believe they should be disqualified from the competition and should be disqualified from all played matches.

I know this post is not as much about the key to the honor code which reflects on "fix it" windows and pre season building, but it is no less important. We all know teams do not follow the code and build parts before season, teams may even build entire drive assemblies preseason. Its unfortunate but true, do their need to be more checks and balances? Possibly, but within the current construct of FIRST I believe it to be nearly impossible.

Cheating is huge, in real life it can get you thrown out of your sport and quite possibly land you in jail. A rule is a rule whether you like it or not, what gives your team the right to pick and chose while the other 1350 teams have to follow it. So whether it be by the FIRST volunteers, or the FIRST community, teams need to be held accountable. If teams follow this advice and ignore the rules, accountability and integrity, I believe that this program would self implode quicker than it would be "better off."

[David Brinza]

Originally Posted by Stud Man Dan

<snip>
I know this post is not as much about the key to the honor code which reflects on "fix it" windows and pre season building, but it is no less important. We all know teams do not follow the code and build parts before season, teams may even build entire drive assemblies preseason. Its unfortunate but true, do their need to be more checks and balances? Possibly, but within the current construct of FIRST I believe it to be nearly impossible.
<snip>
A rule is a rule whether you like it or not, what gives your team the right to pick and chose while the other 1350 teams have to follow it. So whether it be by the FIRST volunteers, or the FIRST community, teams need to be held accountable. If teams follow this advice and ignore the rules, accountability and integrity, I believe that this program would self implode quicker than it would be "better off."

Hey, many of the rules can seem almost arbitrary and incompatible with the way some FIRST teams operate.

The "fix-it window" rule is a good example: last year you were allowed two 5-hour periods in which to upgrade, make spare parts or work on software. For some teams, that highly-constrained work period just couldn't work. If, during weekdays, the mentors couldn't show up until after 6 pm and the school or facility where you built the robot required you to leave by 9pm, you basically lost 40% of your fix-it window those days. FIRST could make it easier (and dare I say, more "fair") by allowing teams to have three "fix-it window" sessions with no more than 10 hours cumulative permitted. Under last year's rule, that wasn't an option.

Would you consider a team that worked 3 hours on two weeknights and four hours on Saturday to be taking unfair advantage of other teams? Could YOUR team rationalize this as meeting the spirit of the "fix-it window intent"? (I'm not saying that I know of teams that did this; we certainly didn't.)

As part of the FIRST community, we have the right (actually, the duty) to suggest that the FIRST rules have enough flexibilty to accommodate teams constraints without unduly penalizing them. Why put teams at a disadvantage via somewhat arbitrary rules intended to "level" the playing field?

Honor code is a great thing, but if some of the least enforceable rules seem arbitrarily over-constrained, the temptation to "skirt" them can drive teams down the path to rationalize their deviations from those rules. Once you start down that path, other rules can become victimized as well. I don't think that's where we want to go...

[Tim Delles]

Originally Posted by David Brinza

Hey, many of the rules can seem almost arbitrary and incompatible with the way some FIRST teams operate.

The "fix-it window" rule is a good example: last year you were allowed two 5-hour periods in which to upgrade, make spare parts or work on software. For some teams, that highly-constrained work period just couldn't work. If, during weekdays, the mentors couldn't show up until after 6 pm and the school or facility where you built the robot required you to leave by 9pm, you basically lost 40% of your fix-it window those days. FIRST could make it easier (and dare I say, more "fair") by allowing teams to have three "fix-it window" sessions with no more than 10 hours cumulative permitted. Under last year's rule, that wasn't an option.

Would you consider a team that worked 3 hours on two weeknights and four hours on Saturday to be taking unfair advantage of other teams? Could YOUR team rationalize this as meeting the spirit of the "fix-it window intent"? (I'm not saying that I know of teams that did this; we certainly didn't.)

As part of the FIRST community, we have the right (actually, the duty) to suggest that the FIRST rules have enough flexibilty to accommodate teams constraints without unduly penalizing them. Why put teams at a disadvantage via somewhat arbitrary rules intended to "level" the playing field?

Honor code is a great thing, but if some of the least enforceable rules seem arbitrarily over-constrained, the temptation to "skirt" them can drive teams down the path to rationalize their deviations from those rules. Once you start down that path, other rules can become victimized as well. I don't think that's where we want to go...

Mr. Brinza,

That is an excellent point and i back you completely on this. Even for our team it seemed diffucult to organize everything and everyone for 2 - 5 hour sessions. It would be nice to see FIRST allow 3 days with no more than 10 total hours.

Great thinking

[Taylor]

Perhaps instances like this are exactly what Mr. Bottiglieri had in mind.
However, I do agree with Mr. Baker in that if you find a rule to be asinine, let the GDC know, don't just pick-and-choose which rules you follow.

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by David Brinza

Hey, many of the rules can seem almost arbitrary and incompatible with the way some FIRST teams operate.

The "fix-it window" rule is a good example: last year you were allowed two 5-hour periods in which to upgrade, make spare parts or work on software. For some teams, that highly-constrained work period just couldn't work. If, during weekdays, the mentors couldn't show up until after 6 pm and the school or facility where you built the robot required you to leave by 9pm, you basically lost 40% of your fix-it window those days. FIRST could make it easier (and dare I say, more "fair") by allowing teams to have three "fix-it window" sessions with no more than 10 hours cumulative permitted. Under last year's rule, that wasn't an option.

Would you consider a team that worked 3 hours on two weeknights and four hours on Saturday to be taking unfair advantage of other teams? Could YOUR team rationalize this as meeting the spirit of the "fix-it window intent"? (I'm not saying that I know of teams that did this; we certainly didn't.)

As part of the FIRST community, we have the right (actually, the duty) to suggest that the FIRST rules have enough flexibilty to accommodate teams constraints without unduly penalizing them. Why put teams at a disadvantage via somewhat arbitrary rules intended to "level" the playing field?

Honor code is a great thing, but if some of the least enforceable rules seem arbitrarily over-constrained, the temptation to "skirt" them can drive teams down the path to rationalize their deviations from those rules. Once you start down that path, other rules can become victimized as well. I don't think that's where we want to go...

The fix it windows were definately intense for us this year. Luckily, due to severall machinist and CNCs working concurrently, we pulled it off.

Now to actually contribute; The rules that FIRST hands down are the rules. Complain on CD about them, or nitpickt he Q&A; but in the end, if FIRST doesn't change it, you just have to follow it. If it were to become standard practice for some teams to break some unpopular rules (that seem to have no rationale) that easily spread to rules that would have worse consequences if broken.

On the other hand, if the referees or field crew is insisting on a rule that is no place mentioned in ANY documentation, then go ahead and fight it. But even then, if the ref's are adament about it, you'll have to follow.



FIRST is unfair enough as it is; unfairly breaking rules because "no one" is watching will just make that worse.

[Taylor]

FIRST has to include a couple silly rules each year so the IRI can make fun of them and change them.

[vivek16]

I was first introduced to the honor code by CD. It was about 3 weeks into build season and I decided to see what it was. I was pretty amazed. I learned that FIRST is waay more than just a robotics competetion. No other activity that I have ever tried has an honor code like FIRST's.

-vivek

p.s. I am definetely going to have that talk with new members about the honor code.

[Ellery]

"Ethics" nuff said.... Look it up.

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Originally Posted by Tom Bottiglieri

FIRST is supposed to inspire and prepare kids for a life and career in a science based profession. The last time I checked, the world wasn't "fair". People lie, cheat, and steal to get ahead in every aspect of life. I'm not saying this is justification to go out and break the rules; it is nothing even close to that. With that being said, people really just need to worry about themselves and their team. How far are you willing to push while still feeling comfortable? In reality, this is a question that only YOU are able to answer, and if you break the rules then prepare to suffer whatever consequences await.

Is the world 'fair'? No, absolutely not. But that does not mean that we cannot inspire these kids to be better than that. Lets change the world, 1 person at a time.

If you teach that lying, cheating, and stealing are acceptable ways to get ahead, than that is what these kids will do. I say, take the high road. Show them that lying, cheating, and stealing are wrong and will not be tolerated by our society (in this case, FIRST).

Originally Posted by Tom Bottiglieri

What I do not like hearing about is the "vigilantism" that is going on at competitions. I don't care if someone broke every rule in the book... One team has absolutely no right to touch another teams property. Seriously, it's just a game. If everyone could just worry about how much fun they are having rather than how much they disagree with other teams, the program would be much better off.

Here, I completely agree with you. 2 wrongs do not make a right. 'Vigilantism' is just plain wrong. If you see a team not playing by the rules, talk to them. If they dont care, let the proper authority (head referee?) know. Let the system work.