pic: We Left The Boys At Home II

[falconmaster]

Originally Posted by squirrel

On our team, that doesn't seem to be enough to get the girls as fully involved as the boys...and I think the same is true with 842's team. I don't know why that is the case, but it does seem to be a fact of life.

Short of giving away a report we plan on presenting later in the season....We have found that there are always teams that say that they have assertive female members. We the get postings that claim that it is not fair. Girls should step up and do what guys do. From my observations, girls and guys are not the same. They are different and it takes a different approach to get girls take on the roles that they might want to but feel that they are not "entitled" to. So they say that they want to do the scrap book or the scouting. If however you make all the positions available then they don't have the fear of displacing or having to compete against a guy. We see that that the girls that have stepped forward in a coed team quickly withdraw to the stereotype roles when they make an error or screw up. They go back to their comfort zones because its comfortable and the don't have to challenge guys for them. When we give the girls the unfettered time to experience guy roles they do improve and the fact that our team made it to the semifinals in LA shows it works. To posters that say that we should do a leave the girls at home version...that is what most teams are doing all the time. We even do it as well. The guys compete fiercely for those roles, and we tend to role back to standard team roles. We are however giving the girls a chance to develop and challenge the guys for the traditionally male dominated roles. Normally we put the best people, regardless of sex, in the roles they best perform in. We are merely trying to provide a training ground where the girls can have an opportunity to bloom like the guys do. How does a girl know if they can drive in a competition under pressure unless she tries it. Driving in practice is not the same. We have the luxury to do this by having three regionals and one nationals to compete in. We have had many team discussions and while it may not seem possible our guys are all very supportive of the girls and fully agree to allow them to experience the FIRST experience in all its forms. They feel that the girls too can then appreciate what the "guys go through". We also feel that it makes our team stronger, you are only as strong as your weakest member. Squirrel said it best, its a fact of life.

[MasterChief 573]

I'm sorry if I seem a little harsh but this all seems a little off to me. If these guys are ok with missing a regional (which I can honestly say none our guys would be if they wanted to attend) then why don't they just encourage and motivate these girls to be in key positions on the team instead of "being in competition for them" as you put it. It just doesn't add up to me. I personally am against the idea of any team member being excluded from a competition they would want to attend no matter what the circumstance. If these guys are willing to compromise in that way, I don't see why they wouldn't be willing to compromise in a way that makes both guys and girls equals throughout the season and gives them the roles they want.

[falconmaster]

Originally Posted by MasterChief 573

I'm sorry if I seem a little harsh but this all seems a little off to me. If these guys are ok with missing a regional (which I can honestly say none our guys would be if they wanted to attend) then why don't they just encourage and motivate these girls to be in key positions on the team instead of "being in competition for them" as you put it. It just doesn't add up to me. I personally am against the idea of any team member being excluded from a competition they would want to attend no matter what the circumstance. If these guys are willing to compromise in that way, I don't see why they wouldn't be willing to compromise in a way that makes both guys and girls equals throughout the season and gives them the roles they want.

Every team can do what they think is right and fair. Our guys think going to two regionals and Nationals is great and they think it is a great opportunity to let the girls do all the roles on the team to get the full effect. We see it as FIRST describes, change the culture. We are changing the culture of our team by understanding that we need to run our team like this, giving the girls, that the guys even subconsciously, don't give because of the nature of the differences of our genders and gender roles. We truly believe that we are not missing out on anything. In fact its just the opposite. It is not about the robot nor the competition. It is about the interactions and the life changing experiences. By giving the girls a chance to play all these roles, we are including our girls in the experiences that most teams never do. We are a better team for it, and we are creating more life changing experiences as well. Doing the scrapbook or scouting to me anyway seems to fall a little short of a life changing experience. They need the stress and competition as you can only get in a FIRST type of event with all the time lines and the seemingly impossible tasks to be experienced first hand by as many of the team members as possible and we are doing that. How many guys do the pr and scrapbook or do scouting on other teams, I know there are some. Compare it to the number of girls.
As we mentioned earlier in this post, we will present a report later in the season
Isn't it interesting that our guys don't have a problem with this?

[JaneYoung]

A couple of thoughts -
a. who, in FIRST, is a well-known scientist or engineer and a woman, that comes to our minds immediately?
b. who are our 'super stars' in FIRST that are women who are achieving the mission and goals of FIRST, that come to our minds immediately?

As FIRST continues to mature as an organization with alumni established in successful careers of their choosing/training and educational background - more women will be recognized for their work, efforts, and contributions.

Whether we like it or not, right now there is a lack of women in the fields of math, science, engineering, technology. FIRST is in process of changing that - but we have a way to go. Teams can and do help create change. It is an honorable mission, an honorable goal. How teams go about creating change, opening doors to the world of science and technology, are as varied and exciting as the teams, themselves.

842 shares their experiences with us here in ChiefDelphi and in their team website. They have shared their robot development, their Chairman's submission, their year in the FIRST experience. They also share their mission and their participation in FIRST as a team making a difference, creating change. This presents opportunities for all of us to think about, explore, and celebrate.

[Andy Baker]

Originally Posted by falconmaster

We see it as FIRST describes, change the culture. We are changing the culture of our team by understanding that we need to run our team like this, giving the girls, that the guys even subconsciously, don't give because of the nature of the differences of our genders and gender roles.

My sincere admiration goes out to team 842 for stepping up and doing this. Not only does it take courage to implement this sort of culture-changing effort, but it takes even more guts to come on this public forum open themselves up about it.

They didn't have to tell us, and they don't need our approval to do this. But... they do, and we learn from their efforts.

As a fellow mentor, I am inspired by this. For those of you who "don't get it", "don't understand", or think it's "not fair to the boys", you need step back, think a bit, and read what Fredi posted above.

Go 842!

Sincerely,
Andy Baker

[N7UJJ]

Our local NPR radio station, KJZZ, did a report from the L.A. regional about our team of women. You can hear it here

[EricH]

Originally Posted by MasterChief 573

I'm sorry if I seem a little harsh but this all seems a little off to me. If these guys are ok with missing a regional (which I can honestly say none our guys would be if they wanted to attend) then why don't they just encourage and motivate these girls to be in key positions on the team instead of "being in competition for them" as you put it. It just doesn't add up to me.

That might not work. You need to understand a few things about this team's culture.

1) Many (not all) of the students are Hispanic. This is not necessarily a bad thing, but it can result in some "different" dynamics. Understanding Hispanic culture (in general) can prepare you for the next point...

2) In general, in Hispanic culture, women are subservient to men. There are exceptions, yes, but this is an "in general" statement.

3) Because of 2), the girls on the team will likely not take those positions if there is a guy in contention for them. That's where your statement falls apart.

So, 842 has devised a unique way of countering this by bringing only the girls to one event. This forces the girls into more of a leadership/robot-side position. If the team approves, I (not being a team member) can only say, that's how they do it, I can't find any fault with it. (Or, if I can, I talk it over with team leadership. I don't see anything wrong with this approach.)

[falconmaster]

Originally Posted by EricH

That might not work. You need to understand a few things about this team's culture.

1) Many (not all) of the students are Hispanic. This is not necessarily a bad thing, but it can result in some "different" dynamics. Understanding Hispanic culture (in general) can prepare you for the next point...

2) In general, in Hispanic culture, women are subservient to men. There are exceptions, yes, but this is an "in general" statement.

3) Because of 2), the girls on the team will likely not take those positions if there is a guy in contention for them. That's where your statement falls apart.

So, 842 has devised a unique way of countering this by bringing only the girls to one event. This forces the girls into more of a leadership/robot-side position. If the team approves, I (not being a team member) can only say, that's how they do it, I can't find any fault with it. (Or, if I can, I talk it over with team leadership. I don't see anything wrong with this approach.)

Thanks Eric, I could not have done it better myself.

[Britt]

Originally Posted by CraigHickman

I really find this idea interesting. But to ask a question... Do you ever do a "Leave the Girls at home" trip? I realize it's a nice idea to support affirmative action, but in order to truly promote balance and equality, you need to apply both...

By celebrating differences, and requiring an administrative level action to bring girls into the experience, you're acknowledging the differences, and conditioning the youth that affirmative action is the way that they'll move forward. I realize this topic has been beaten to death in last year's iteration of this, but I really can't stop myself from asking.

So was there a male only trip? And if not, why?

Well if you think about when men and mechanics are together they are like one. Most of the time the girls want to be involved but are shy and don’t want to ask a male team member to show them how to do something. Team 842's normal driver is a male. By only taking the female team members it puts the responsibility on the girls. It's a learning experience for the girls because they can’t depend on the boys they have to figure it out and learn to fix it. It’s putting science and technology into the minds of females. Its hard for a female to survive in a mans robotics world. We are not trying to change the whole computation just get girls more involved.

[MasterChief 573]

Originally Posted by EricH

That might not work. You need to understand a few things about this team's culture.

1) Many (not all) of the students are Hispanic. This is not necessarily a bad thing, but it can result in some "different" dynamics. Understanding Hispanic culture (in general) can prepare you for the next point...

2) In general, in Hispanic culture, women are subservient to men. There are exceptions, yes, but this is an "in general" statement.

3) Because of 2), the girls on the team will likely not take those positions if there is a guy in contention for them. That's where your statement falls apart.

So, 842 has devised a unique way of countering this by bringing only the girls to one event. This forces the girls into more of a leadership/robot-side position. If the team approves, I (not being a team member) can only say, that's how they do it, I can't find any fault with it. (Or, if I can, I talk it over with team leadership. I don't see anything wrong with this approach.)

Thanks for sharing that info with me, it makes this a lot easier to understand and accept. Regardless of my opinion I respect that this team is choosing to address this in a way that it feels will be effective.

[Kmo]

Being one of the girls that went on this trip to LA I would have to say that it was a life learning experience. My first time joining robotics I started out as a scrapbooker because I didn't know much about building a robot or putting together a electric broad or anything else like that. What I knew was how to be creative and that was who I became for my first year on the team. I didn't start taking up other positions on the team until last year at the San Diego Regional, there I realize how important it is for a women to get more involved with science and technology. I say this because a women can gain so much, from learning how to build to pr. There they learn how to work under pressure and how to deal with stress at a critical moment.

My experience from LA was exhilarating. My main job on the team was to be the driver, but when I wasn't in a match I was talking to the judges and to the media or who ever came by. Sometimes I was helping the other girls make changes to the robot, and this was all on the first day. On the Next two days I was more focus on driving, going to other teams coming up with the best strategy, talking to the judges and the people that came by to see the robot that asked questions that came to mind. I never thought it would be this challanging; to be able to drive, to be able to talk to others, to be able to repair the robot in only a couple of minutes. I understand what most of the guys on our team have to go through now and what it takes to be just as good as anyone else on our team.

I guess I can see how others would say it's unfair to the guys because on their team both male and female are equal, like it doesn't really matter what gender you are just weather if you are good at what you do or weather you are wanting to learn how to do certain things that interest you.

I want eveyone to know that I appricate everything my mentors went through to make this happen, this really was a life learning experince, I'm sure not only for me, but also the rest of the girls that came on this trip.

My thanks to our mentors

[falconmaster]

Don't forget to thank the boys........

[Kmo]

I have read the post and yes I'm a little bias as my daughter is on the team and went to LA. I have notice that she has more confidence, understanding and a desire to not only to be more involved with the team but is more interested in science and technology. She want to help to change the preception of what women can do in engineering, sceince and technology.

OOH-RAH !!!!!!!
Carl Hayden, Falcon Robotics, Freddie, Dr. Cameron, Karen, Jerry, Jim and all the mentors, parents, and the boys on the team.

Glenn Morris
Proud Parent of two 842 members

From Kelly
My thanks to boys goes beyond words

[Matt H.]

I feel very conflicted posting on this thread. When I became club president this year one of my agenda items was female participation. Perhaps one of the things I most quickly learned was that simply encouraging people to go for it and to be involved does very little in terms of results. I could tell the boys to let the girls have a hand in the projects or encourage the girls to find their own projects, but eventually the girls would inevitably end up in our business area rather than the fab shop.

I found that the best way to remedy this was to simply get a group of girls tell them I needed a part built in x hours and that was their job. When given a "trial by fire" such as this they would excel and doing as such has helped them to become more integrated members of the team. Carl Hayden has taken this philosophy to the next level by having a girls only regional. Having seen those girls I also admired how quickly they learned and improved upon the robot in the pits.

On the converse side of the argument I am very strongly against affirmative action and would prefer to see something along the lines of regulating the boys out of the pits or off the drive team for one regional. This I believe would be a much fair way to achieve the same effect.

[Kmo]

Originally Posted by Matt H.

I feel very conflicted posting on this thread. When I became club president this year one of my agenda items was female participation. Perhaps one of the things I most quickly learned was that simply encouraging people to go for it and to be involved does very little in terms of results. I could tell the boys to let the girls have a hand in the projects or encourage the girls to find their own projects, but eventually the girls would inevitably end up in our business area rather than the fab shop.

I found that the best way to remedy this was to simply get a group of girls tell them I needed a part built in x hours and that was their job. When given a "trial by fire" such as this they would excel and doing as such has helped them to become more integrated members of the team. Carl Hayden has taken this philosophy to the next level by having a girls only regional. Having seen those girls I also admired how quickly they learned and improved upon the robot in the pits.

On the converse side of the argument I am very strongly against affirmative action and would prefer to see something along the lines of regulating the boys out of the pits or off the drive team for one regional. This I believe would be a much fair way to achieve the same effect.

Remember you would have to consider the fact of how many students can be taken out of school at one time. Yes that would be interesting to see, but that takes out the whole point of an all girls trip. The trip was meant to push girls into doing something they normally don't do. Sure you can hand a girl a tool and tell her to start working on the robot or any kind of project, but that doesn't necessarily mean that she would follow through. Telling someone to do something is much different from the person actually wanting to do it. If the girls on the team have some kind of motivation I'm sure they would be willing to do whatever the guys do.

Tell me what is FIRST all about? It's about changing the culture, what we decided to do goes beyond to what most people would find unfair. Maybe on some teams the girls are as equal to the guys, that you don't even look at what gender they are just weather they are good at what they do. But that always true on others. Can you honestly tell me that there are more than three girls that work on the robot or something that does not involve scrapbooking, scouting, cheering for the team, and/or going around collecting buttoms or any other item from other teams.