Farewell, Chief Delphi.

[Molten]

First off, I hate to see you go. As stated above, I think that a break is healthy if that is what you are after. At my high school, I was the best draftsmen for two years. There was only one in the school I considered my equal in skill. You, however, have always been my goal. I would love to compete against you in CAD despite my certainty of defeat. It would just be an honor.

Secondly, I can't think of a single thing you have said that was the least bit GP and I would like to defy anyone here to find me a post worthy of a red dot.

In my opinion: If you aren't willing to get attacked for your opinions, then they aren't very strong opinions and are not worth having.

WARNING: Any of you that thinks that you can control GP by annoying any who disagree, know that there will always be another that appears where the other has left. Know, that though you might have gotten rid of Craig, I have no intention of letting his ideals leave with him.

Anyone who wants, give me red dots. I've worked hard to earn them. I've been careful to make sure my every word was kind. Making sure to make no enemies. I will not be doing this in the future. In the past I've let annoyances slide, but this is the last straw. I, for one, take your attacks upon Craig as attacks upon the community and myself. I will not forget.

You and I have never met, but I am certain that if we went to the same school, we would have been good friends.

[Schnabel]

In reply to everyone who is relating this to dots, just a reminder, that's all they are, dots. They have no power over your attitude, personality, or beliefs.
Craig, I am going to miss you. I have always looked up to your points of view as you have brought in some interesting ones that have made me think. I wish you would stay, but if you feel this is what you need to do then this is what you need to do. Just remember, don't let that 5% of people ruin the other 95% of us.

[fimmel]

you will be missed. your perspective on FIRST and the things that are involved with it are ones i look up to. ive been in situations where the lack of knowing what GP is has gotten to a point to where im moving on im with you in your fight and someday it will get better.

best wishes

...forest

[Pavan Dave]

Originally Posted by Molten

Anyone who wants, give me red dots. I've worked hard to earn them. I've been careful to make sure my every word was kind.

Making sure to make no enemies.

I will not be doing this in the future. In the past I've let annoyances slide, but this is the last straw. I, for one, take your attacks upon Craig as attacks upon the community and myself. I will not forget.

I know for a fact that many people do not see eye to eye with me (take my views on GP), and I couldn't have said it any better.

You will always make enemies whenever you post because not everyone agrees on the same things.

Don't change for anyone.

Pavan.

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by Pavan Dave

You will always make enemies whenever you post because not everyone agrees on the same thing.

I'm not of the belief that this is the intent or purpose of Chief Delphi. It is a place for sharing knowledge and information, perspectives, and humor. In the process, it has created community.

Sharing opinions can present different perspectives, viewpoints, and experiences. The opinions can be presented clearly and appropriately and the threads do not have to spin themselves into ugly exchanges and rudeness. Each poster can bring respect to the topic, whether agreeing with it or not. And, people can refrain from posting and keep their thoughts to themselves if they have nothing of value to contribute or are intent on flaming. That can take a little will power and self-control but that's ok, too.

If I receive red reps, I consider the source, decide if I I feel I merited them, and move on. I do that with green ones as well.

[JVN]

Originally Posted by Pavan Dave

Don't change for anyone.

I'm confused by all the "Don't change" posts in this thread.
Maybe "change" is exactly what is called for in this situation. Either self-change, or a change of scenery.

You either need to:
-Learn to deal with the conflicts you're in.
-Change to avoid the conflicts.
-Move on to somewhere where the way you are will cause less conflict.

Either way, some sort of change is important. Craig has seemingly chosen the 3rd option.

Social interactions sometimes result in conflict. Some of these are positive conflicts, some of them are negative conflicts. "I'm sick of fighting with people so I'm leaving" is not a constructive solution; it is just a way of playing a martyr.

It is possible that none of this is your fault. If that is the case, then great... move on. The rest of us will shrug, and life will go on.

A wise man once told me: "If you continually find yourself in negative conflict with people, they probably aren't the problem, you are; it is probably a good idea to change the way you approach your social interactions & the way you communicate."

Something you are doing is causing these conflicts and maybe some self reflection could help you understand why. This is an opportunity for self-improvement.

I don't believe "beliefs" are usually the problem. It is rare that someone makes enemies of enlightened people because of their beliefs. Most of us are capable of "live and let live" philosophies. Disagreements happen, but they are often very constructive. Negative conflict (in my experience) stems primarily from problems of communication.

You don't necessarily need to change your beliefs for the benefit of others, but perhaps you can change the way you express them.

If you find that you can't fit into the community, and you won't change to fit, then maybe leaving is the correct solution. Maybe you will find some place where you do fit in.

Good Luck with whatever you're doing.

-John

PS - A farewell POST is just a cry for attention; not a farewell.
You don't want to leave, and I bet you're probably reading this right now.

What sort of attention do you want? If you'd like to message me I'll be happy to talk things over with you.

[Bob Steele]

Originally Posted by JVN

A wise man once told me: "If you continually find yourself in negative conflict with people, they probably aren't the problem, you are; it is probably a good idea to change the way you approach your social interactions & the way you communicate."

I think something I noticed about all the bad relationships and situations I have been in my life is that the ONLY thing that remains constant in them is
MY PRESENCE...

Thanks for the insight John.

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by JVN

I'm confused by all the "Don't change" posts in this thread.
Maybe "change" is exactly what is called for in this situation. Either self-change, or a change of scenery.

You either need to:
-Learn to deal with the conflicts you're in.
-Change to avoid the conflicts.
-Move on to somewhere where the way you are will cause less conflict.

Either way, some sort of change is important. Craig has seemingly chosen the 3rd option.

Social interactions sometimes result in conflict. Some of these are positive conflicts, some of them are negative conflicts. "I'm sick of fighting with people so I'm leaving" is not a constructive solution; it is just a way of playing a martyr.

It is possible that none of this is your fault. If that is the case, then great... move on. The rest of us will shrug, and life will go on.

A wise man once told me: "If you continually find yourself in negative conflict with people, they probably aren't the problem, you are; it is probably a good idea to change the way you approach your social interactions & the way you communicate."

Something you are doing is causing these conflicts and maybe some self reflection could help you understand why. This is an opportunity for self-improvement.

I don't believe "beliefs" are usually the problem. It is rare that someone makes enemies of enlightened people because of their beliefs. Most of us are capable of "live and let live" philosophies. Disagreements happen, but they are often very constructive. Negative conflict (in my experience) stems primarily from problems of communication.

You don't necessarily need to change your beliefs for the benefit of others, but perhaps you can change the way you express them.

If you find that you can't fit into the community, and you won't change to fit, then maybe leaving is the correct solution. Maybe you will find some place where you do fit in.

Good Luck with whatever you're doing.

-John

PS - A farewell POST is just a cry for attention; not a farewell.
You don't want to leave, and I bet you're probably reading this right now.

What sort of attention do you want? If you'd like to message me I'll be happy to talk things over with you.

Awesome Post. Really, everyone should read it entirely.

[Steve W]

John, as always you exude maturity well beyond your years. You also had the courage to say what I was afraid to. Thanks for bringing your thoughts forward.

[John Neun]

Wow, John (VN), nice post! I don't know Craig, but he is obviously somebody who has spent a lot of time and invested a lot of effort in FIRST. While your comments may seem harsh, in my experience they ring very true. I hope Craig takes you up on your offer for discussion.

(OK, my opinion of JVN is NOT unbiased!)

[smurfgirl]

Originally Posted by JVN

Maybe "change" is exactly what is called for in this situation. Either self-change, or a change of scenery.

...

A wise man once told me: "If you continually find yourself in negative conflict with people, they probably aren't the problem, you are; it is probably a good idea to change the way you approach your social interactions & the way you communicate."

Something you are doing is causing these conflicts and maybe some self reflection could help you understand why. This is an opportunity for self-improvement.

...

PS - A farewell POST is just a cry for attention; not a farewell.
You don't want to leave, and I bet you're probably reading this right now.

JVN is a very wise man. I knew that before this post, but this post certainly reinforced that for me. The first point he made that I've quoted is definitely good food for thought for all of us reading this post. The second thing I've quoted is also a very good point. It made me think about myself, and I think this thread has brought up a good opportunity for self-reflection for all of us. Finally, after reading this thread about seven times, I'm going to agree with JVN on his PS note. I was thinking nearly the same thing, but he phrased it better than I could have.

[Carlee10]

Originally Posted by JVN

-Change to avoid the conflicts.

I believe that if he is was unfairly judged for thinking differently, that he shouldn't have to change what he thinks and feels. I mean, once you've posted and done it in the kindest, most non-inflammatory way possible, and people still say nasty things(and I don't mean red dots), then you are not the problem. I think we may be going a step too far to say he wants attention from a last post, but maybe he just wants to lay out what he thinks, and why he's doing what he's doing. Yes, he may be looking at these, but just to see what happens. Maybe he doesn't "fit in", but I thought that FIRST accepted anyone, no matter what. Yes, maybe Craig should've learned to roll with the punches, but, you know, that can get tiring after a while, trying to shrug off personal attacks. I've had that happen to me before, not in here, but in other situations. It is difficult when people keep telling you that you're wrong, or to be quiet, or that you don't fit in a certain group or area so get out. Maybe its all a big misunderstanding; I just feel that no one should be made to feel like this. Whether or not it was the best possible choice, he did what he thought was best.

[gblake]

Originally Posted by JVN

....

Folks/John,

I think that John's message is useful and interesting; but off-target at this moment.

When I reviewed several months of CraigHickman posts, I did not see any reason for him to have received unusual flak over any of the recent ones.

However, he tells us that he did receive recent private messages that he felt were degrading and/or "assaults" from 10 or more separate people; some of whom he had "looked up to" before the recent exchanges. Think about it: 10 separate people saw fit to recently send him harshly critical messages rather than write public posts that would have expressed their viewpoints with equal vehemence or perhaps more civilly.

Dang - That sounds like the problem that needs to be addressed - Hopefully those 10 folks will read some of KathieK's advice (and John's too while they are at it).

Craig could air that dirty laundry by posting the contents of those messages publicly, and then see the lid really blow off the pot as people both take sides in the "debates" that ensue, and become worried about FIRST's public image being tarnished because CD members occasionally light a few flames.

Instead he seems to have taken into account that people are often more upset that a problem is made public than they are about the problem existing; and so has decided to move on.

Like I said, John's advice is worth remembering, but for me it doesn't line up well with my perception of this situation.

Blake
PS: No, I don't think that we should grab pitchforks and torches, and then go find those 10 other people.

[JaneYoung]

I've thought about the PM aspect of this and what I've come up with is that no one is immune. PMs can be as thoughtful and well-written as some posts in the fora. They can also be hastily written with little attempt at a civil tone. I've been the recipient of both types of PMs and I think it is fairly common. Are the PMs that cause ill feelings, good? No. Can more care be taken when crafting the message? Likely. Are the PMs anyone's business? No, unless a moderator is contacted for help. The PM aspect is none of our collective business. That said, how we communicate either publicly or privately in ChiefDelphi, shows the measure of our maturity and our professionalism in conducting ourselves as members of FIRST.

[Alex.Norton]

Originally Posted by gblake

Folks/John,

I think that John's message is useful and interesting; but off-target at this moment.

While I agree with you that CraigHickman has never posted anything worthy of a negative comment or an excessively critical PM (quite frankly I have almost never seen anything worthy of this on CD) I think the fact that this thread exists shows that at least to a certain amount Craig needed to think longer about the situation. If he wasn't feeling hurt and in need of venting he would have informed his closer friends and left it at that. Even though he didn't directly air his dirty laundry, to a certain amount he has and IMO JVN hit the nail on the head when he said it was a cry for attention.

I have seen farewell threads on numerous other forums and they always fill me with a certain amount of shame in the community that I'm a part of. But much more importantly they always seem to be posted by a person who I had a great deal of respect for, who posted interesting threads, put forward new and perhaps controversial ideas and was a large part of that community. While this is usually the reason that they are leaving it always causes me to loose a lot of the respect that I one held for that person.

I don't tend to be a large part of online communities (or for that matter local communities) and this is something that I'm always trying hard to work on. Someday I hope to have as much presence here as Craig still seems to, despite leaving, and that he rethinks his decision, or at least takes up many of the people on their offers to help him resolve the conflict.

I will miss seeing his excellent CAD work in the gallery and his thought provoking posts on the forums. I'm not going to try and tell him their "just dots" because I put more importance in my own "dots" than that but I do hope he takes the negative comments less personally.