pic: "You should never go against a robotics kid"

[ComradeNikolai]

First, however we define what this creation is, it is wickedly cool. I wish I had a class like the one you built that in... and team members to build it with.

Originally Posted by martin417

OK if we go with the Webster definition of catapult "an ancient military device for hurling missiles", then yes all trebuchets are catapults (but obviously not all catapults are trebuchets). That would then mean that all missile throwers are catapults, including ballistae, onangers, mangonels, and even more modern weapons like howitzers, cannons, rifles, pistols, magnetic rail guns, FA/18 jet fighter...... All of these devices hurl missiiles. (though not all could be classified as ancient).

But if we look at Webster's definition of Trebuchet "a medieval military engine for hurling heavy missiles (as rocks)" there is little difference. It would appear as though the two devices are the same. I attribute this discrepancy to laziness on the part of Webster. I still think a catapult refers to the traditional definition of on arm with a basket on the end that rotates about a pivot until it hits a stop, thereby propelling a projectile forward.

I believe these definitions are far too vague to get a good definition (just as I would never define "justice" by a Webster definition; it's good for a quick reference, but for anything remotely technical, it is lacking). For the sake of rapid research, I'm going to use Wikipedia's definitions:

Catapult is defined as "any one of a number of non-handheld mechanical devices used to throw a projectile a great distance without the aid of an explosive substance;" this invalidates the examples of Howitzers and does include ballistae; originally, catapults referred to "ballistae" and ballistae referred to "catapults;" the definitions switched, but it can apply to either as long as it does not use explosives.
This is an example of a catapult.

Trebuchet includes the following: "trebuchet is often confused with the earlier and less powerful torsion engines. The main difference is that a torsion engine [ie mangonel or ballista] uses a twisted rope or twine to provide power, whereas a trebuchet uses a counterweight" and it continues to state "A trebuchet also has a sling holding the projectile, and a means for releasing it at the right moment for maximum range." and "Both trebuchets and torsion engines are classified under the generic term 'catapult,'."
This would appear to be a torsion engine, or a "torsion trebuchet;" however, that is not the normal context of the term "trebuchet."

I would argue that this is a torsion engine but not a trebuchet, for a trebuchet uses a counterweight, whereas the surgical tubing more closely matches the twisted rope used to power many catapults, such as mangonels and onagers.

I apologize for the length of this post, but I love both debate and medieval weaponry... This is not a confrontational post, it is just my viewpoint on it.

[ATannahill]

You're fighting over whether this is a catapult or a trebuchet? I feel you time and effort is being used as well as if it went towards the game hint.

[martin417]

Originally Posted by rtfgnow

You're fighting over whether this is a catapult or a trebuchet? I feel you time and effort is being used as well as if it went towards the game hint.

Game hint? you mean the picture of a fish? The one that has a topic with over 700 posts discussing a picture of a fish? what else can be said about a picture of a fish that hasn't already been said? This catpult / traction trebuchet is a whole lot cooler, and is much more interesting.

[samir13k]

the trebuchet is probably also more relevant to the game then the fish also

[EricH]

Originally Posted by samir13k

the trebuchet is probably also more relevant to the game then the fish also

Catapult/trebuchet/launcher throws the fish across how far???

Hey, could you guys find an opah and launch it, just to relieve everyone's stress around here (and discussion of the game hint)?

[gorrilla]

how did you make it realease on end of the sling at the right time? or was it just try-bend?

[Eugene Fang]

Originally Posted by gorrilla

how did you make it realease on end of the sling at the right time? or was it just try-bend?

If you look closely at the picture on the right (the CAD does not have it) there is a piece of 1/4" aluminum coplanar to the main arm that has a slight V shape cut out. The release angle wasn't perfect (was about 35 degrees I think) but it was good enough. And since it was luck that it went at that angle on the first try, the group decided to just keep it that way.

[dtengineering]

Originally Posted by rtfgnow

You're fighting over whether this is a catapult or a trebuchet? I feel you time and effort is being used as well as if it went towards the game hint.

First of all, I don't think anyone is "fighting" over anything. There is a polite, rational discussion going on as to the appropriate terminology to use when referring to this design. Precision with words is equally as important as precision in drawings, or in machining. Often it is more important!

But I do appreciate the humour in the statement.

Jason

[Eugene Fang]

I think we decided to call it a "Catachet"

Sounds French...

[ComradeNikolai]

Originally Posted by Pikat

I think we decided to call it a "Catachet"

Sounds French...

Or a "CAD-achet."

[joshy1323]

my school security guards flipped out when we were test firing our robotic t-shirt cannon because they thought it was a weapon so we arent aloud to make stuff like that anymore lol. great job by the way... i sure wish i had one

[Akash Rastogi]

Originally Posted by joshy1323

my school security guards flipped out when we were test firing our robotic t-shirt cannon because they thought it was a weapon so we arent aloud to make stuff like that anymore lol. great job by the way... i sure wish i had one

Lol, that's why you should usually let school admin know what you're up to with stuff like that

[Eugene Fang]

Originally Posted by lilstogi11

Lol, that's why you should usually let school admin know what you're up to with stuff like that

Our school actually asked us to build a t-shirt cannon for rallies, and they actually reimbursed us on the cost of the parts, so that was pretty cool.

[Rick TYler]

RE: What it's called?

First of all, I call it "cool"!

Trebuchets were the ultimate development of the stationary flinging-arm military weapon, but by the 14th century they were being overtaken by early cannon. Since no one alive now speaks a 14th century dialect, we are unlikely to be using the proper name in 21st century English, especially since I doubt medieval siege engines used in probably dozens of different kingdoms, duchies, and counties were all called the same thing. I believe were are applying our modern passion for rigid definitions to devices created in a time where no such cladistic hegemony existed.

[Akash Rastogi]

Originally Posted by Rick TYler

RE: What it's called?

First of all, I call it "cool"!

Trebuchets were the ultimate development of the stationary flinging-arm military weapon, but by the 14th century they were being overtaken by early cannon. Since no one alive now speaks a 14th century dialect, we are unlikely to be using the proper name in 21st century English, especially since I doubt medieval siege engines used in probably dozens of different kingdoms, duchies, and counties were all called the same thing. I believe were are applying our modern passion for rigid definitions to devices created in a time where no such cladistic hegemony existed.

Not entirely sure but i believe the term was changed during the Mongolian rule of Central Asia... or at least the Khan or Seljuk Turks created a different type and changed the terms..