Go to Post When faced with large problems, I always see it as an opportunity to dream big. Really big. - JaneYoung [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > ChiefDelphi.com Website > Extra Discussion
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-01-2009, 12:22
falconmaster's Avatar
falconmaster falconmaster is offline
Registered User
AKA: Ledge
FRC #0842 (Falcon Robotics)
Team Role: Teacher
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Posts: 1,406
falconmaster has a reputation beyond reputefalconmaster has a reputation beyond reputefalconmaster has a reputation beyond reputefalconmaster has a reputation beyond reputefalconmaster has a reputation beyond reputefalconmaster has a reputation beyond reputefalconmaster has a reputation beyond reputefalconmaster has a reputation beyond reputefalconmaster has a reputation beyond reputefalconmaster has a reputation beyond reputefalconmaster has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via MSN to falconmaster
Re: pic: Carmen week1 team 842

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teamcap.2395 View Post
Wow, I am really impressed by your design!
So this is basically an ackerman steering chassis?
How do you plan on implementing the differential?
How many hours have you guys worked during week 1?
We will use differential steering on the rear wheels in the code, thats the programmers area, we are the builders, so thats all I can explain
__________________
Faridodin "Fredi" Lajvardi KD7WKD
Reply With Quote
  #2   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 12-01-2009, 08:15
XXShadowXX's Avatar
XXShadowXX XXShadowXX is offline
They call me Cody.
no team (None currently :\)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Rookie Year: 2008
Location: Pontiac; MI
Posts: 408
XXShadowXX has much to be proud ofXXShadowXX has much to be proud ofXXShadowXX has much to be proud ofXXShadowXX has much to be proud ofXXShadowXX has much to be proud ofXXShadowXX has much to be proud ofXXShadowXX has much to be proud ofXXShadowXX has much to be proud ofXXShadowXX has much to be proud ofXXShadowXX has much to be proud of
Re: pic: Carmen week1 team 842

what are you using pneumatics for?
__________________
Is now an engineer thanks to FIRST.
Reply With Quote
  #3   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 12-01-2009, 10:44
Jared Russell's Avatar
Jared Russell Jared Russell is offline
Taking a year (mostly) off
FRC #0254 (The Cheesy Poofs), FRC #0341 (Miss Daisy)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 3,078
Jared Russell has a reputation beyond reputeJared Russell has a reputation beyond reputeJared Russell has a reputation beyond reputeJared Russell has a reputation beyond reputeJared Russell has a reputation beyond reputeJared Russell has a reputation beyond reputeJared Russell has a reputation beyond reputeJared Russell has a reputation beyond reputeJared Russell has a reputation beyond reputeJared Russell has a reputation beyond reputeJared Russell has a reputation beyond repute
Re: pic: Carmen week1 team 842

I have a vested interest in finding out whether this chassis design is legal. It would seem that the bumper rules require (1) that exterior corners are protected by BUMPERS on both sides and all trailer contact is bumper to bumper, and (2) that bumpers can only be attached to the BUMPER PERIMETER.

Unless I'm missing something, both of those conditions cannot simultaneously be met for the front of this robot (Which may or may not be the GDC's intention. Considering that this picture was posted in the Q&A and all that the GDC said was that exterior corners must be protected, it seems like this particular contradiction hasn't occurred to them.)
Reply With Quote
  #4   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 12-01-2009, 10:46
MrForbes's Avatar
MrForbes MrForbes is offline
Registered User
AKA: Jim
FRC #1726 (N.E.R.D.S.)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Sierra Vista AZ
Posts: 6,013
MrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: pic: Carmen week1 team 842

I think it has occurred to them, but they don't answer questions directly, they let you figure out the implications for yourself.
Reply With Quote
  #5   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 12-01-2009, 11:04
Paul Copioli's Avatar Unsung FIRST Hero Woodie Flowers Award
Paul Copioli Paul Copioli is offline
President, VEX Robotics, Inc.
FRC #3310 (Black Hawk Robotics)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Rockwall, TX
Posts: 1,391
Paul Copioli has a reputation beyond reputePaul Copioli has a reputation beyond reputePaul Copioli has a reputation beyond reputePaul Copioli has a reputation beyond reputePaul Copioli has a reputation beyond reputePaul Copioli has a reputation beyond reputePaul Copioli has a reputation beyond reputePaul Copioli has a reputation beyond reputePaul Copioli has a reputation beyond reputePaul Copioli has a reputation beyond reputePaul Copioli has a reputation beyond repute
Re: pic: Carmen week1 team 842

Fredi,
The robot looks great so far. If you are intending to place 6" of bumper on the internal, angled side then I think you are meeting the intent of the rule. However, the rule as written as a few wierd nuances that may get you in trouble.

Here is what I suggest:

1. Write another Q & A showing the exact picture of your robot with bumpers on all sides you intend to place them.

2. In the Q & A clarify theat the bumpers are all made per the BUMPER rules (plywood, etc.)

3. Specifically ask if the BUMPERS on the angled internal sides are considered BUMPERS or not. Ask if they will be considered in the robot weight or BUMPER weight.



What troubles me is that the bumpers on the internal sides are not really legal BUMPERS becasue they are not mounted to the BUMPER Perimeter. My question is how can you cover all corners with legal BUMPERS if one side of the corner is not part of the BUMPER PERIMIETER?

Good luck with getting clarification. WE decided to go traditional wide body becasue we do not have the patience to deal with non-answers from the GDC on such a mundane subject such as bumpers.

Paul
Reply With Quote
  #6   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 12-01-2009, 11:18
Ian Curtis Ian Curtis is offline
Best Available Data
FRC #1778 (Chill Out!)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Puget Sound
Posts: 2,521
Ian Curtis has a reputation beyond reputeIan Curtis has a reputation beyond reputeIan Curtis has a reputation beyond reputeIan Curtis has a reputation beyond reputeIan Curtis has a reputation beyond reputeIan Curtis has a reputation beyond reputeIan Curtis has a reputation beyond reputeIan Curtis has a reputation beyond reputeIan Curtis has a reputation beyond reputeIan Curtis has a reputation beyond reputeIan Curtis has a reputation beyond repute
Re: pic: Carmen week1 team 842

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Copioli View Post
What troubles me is that the bumpers on the internal sides are not really legal BUMPERS becasue they are not mounted to the BUMPER Perimeter. My question is how can you cover all corners with legal BUMPERS if one side of the corner is not part of the BUMPER PERIMIETER?
[EDIT]See GaryVoshol's post below, my interpretation is incorrect[/EDIT]

Paul,

My interpretation has always been that an "exterior corner" is one with both both edges (aka sides of the corner) on the BUMPER PERIMETER. This interpretation would be consistent with the images and text in Update #2. I'm working on getting our password to post in the Q&A.

Does this interpretation seem reasonable to anyone else?
__________________
CHILL OUT! | Aero Stability & Control Engineer
Adam Savage's Obsessions (TED Talk) (Part 2)
It is much easier to call someone else a genius than admit to yourself that you are lazy. - Dave Gingery

Last edited by Ian Curtis : 12-01-2009 at 12:01.
Reply With Quote
  #7   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 12-01-2009, 11:24
GaryVoshol's Avatar
GaryVoshol GaryVoshol is offline
Cogito ergo arbitro
no team
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Royal Oak, MI
Posts: 5,748
GaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond repute
Re: pic: Carmen week1 team 842

Quote:
Originally Posted by iCurtis View Post
My interpretation has always been that an "exterior corner" is one with both both edges (aka sides of the corner) on the BUMPER PERIMETER. This interpretation would be consistent with the images and text in Update #2. I'm working on getting our password to post in the Q&A.

Does this interpretation seem reasonable to anyone else?
While your interpretation sounds entirely reasonable, it can't be. That's not how BUMPER PERIMETER is defined:
Quote:
BUMPER PERIMETER – the polygon defined by the outer-most set of exterior vertices on the ROBOT (without the BUMPERS or Trailer Hitch attached) that are within the BUMPER ZONE. To determine the BUMPER PERIMETER, wrap a piece of string around the ROBOT at the level of the BUMPER ZONE - the string describes this polygon. The BUMPER PERIMETER may extend up to, but cannot exceed, the maximum ROBOT volume constraints defined in Rule <R11>.
Carmen's front corners with the acute frame angles are outermost vertices, and so by definition are on the BUMPER PERIMETER.

An entirely reasonable interpretation, in my estimation, would be to allow 842 to mount non-standard bumpers on the angled pieces such that with the standard BUMPERS on the side the corners are fully protected. The angled pieces would have to count in the robot size and weight. Whether that reasonable (IMO) interpretation will pass, well I guess it's up to them to gamble or not.

And the GDC is fond of saying, "We do not comment on particular robot designs. Here's the rule."
__________________
(since 2004)

Last edited by GaryVoshol : 12-01-2009 at 11:28.
Reply With Quote
  #8   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 12-01-2009, 12:00
Ian Curtis Ian Curtis is offline
Best Available Data
FRC #1778 (Chill Out!)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Puget Sound
Posts: 2,521
Ian Curtis has a reputation beyond reputeIan Curtis has a reputation beyond reputeIan Curtis has a reputation beyond reputeIan Curtis has a reputation beyond reputeIan Curtis has a reputation beyond reputeIan Curtis has a reputation beyond reputeIan Curtis has a reputation beyond reputeIan Curtis has a reputation beyond reputeIan Curtis has a reputation beyond reputeIan Curtis has a reputation beyond reputeIan Curtis has a reputation beyond repute
Re: pic: Carmen week1 team 842

Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryVoshol View Post
While your interpretation sounds entirely reasonable, it can't be. That's not how BUMPER PERIMETER is defined:Carmen's front corners with the acute frame angles are outermost vertices, and so by definition are on the BUMPER PERIMETER.

An entirely reasonable interpretation, in my estimation, would be to allow 842 to mount non-standard bumpers on the angled pieces such that with the standard BUMPERS on the side the corners are fully protected. The angled pieces would have to count in the robot size and weight. Whether that reasonable (IMO) interpretation will pass, well I guess it's up to them to gamble or not.

And the GDC is fond of saying, "We do not comment on particular robot designs. Here's the rule."
<R08> mentions outermost exterior vertices. The term exterior is never defined, and I always defined it in my head as " both 'sides' of the corner are on the BUMPER PERIMETER."

However, reading the rules and looking at Carl Hayden's robot, I see where my definition falls apart. If their bumpers on the front corner are not exterior vertices, then they have no BUMPER PERIMETER. Yup, I was wrong.
__________________
CHILL OUT! | Aero Stability & Control Engineer
Adam Savage's Obsessions (TED Talk) (Part 2)
It is much easier to call someone else a genius than admit to yourself that you are lazy. - Dave Gingery
Reply With Quote
  #9   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 12-01-2009, 11:27
384 huband44's Avatar
384 huband44 384 huband44 is offline
Registered User
AKA: Wayne Huband
FRC #0384 (Sparky)
Team Role: Electrical
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Rookie Year: 2008
Location: Glen Allen, Va
Posts: 26
384 huband44 has a little shameless behaviour in the past
Re: pic: Carmen week1 team 842

Very awesome looking
Great design work
__________________
Don't hate the rookie.
Reply With Quote
  #10   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 12-01-2009, 11:50
Unsung FIRST Hero Woodie Flowers Award
Chris Fultz Chris Fultz is offline
My Other Car is a 500 HP Turbine
FRC #0234 (Cyber Blue)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Rookie Year: 1942
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 2,837
Chris Fultz has a reputation beyond reputeChris Fultz has a reputation beyond reputeChris Fultz has a reputation beyond reputeChris Fultz has a reputation beyond reputeChris Fultz has a reputation beyond reputeChris Fultz has a reputation beyond reputeChris Fultz has a reputation beyond reputeChris Fultz has a reputation beyond reputeChris Fultz has a reputation beyond reputeChris Fultz has a reputation beyond reputeChris Fultz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: pic: Carmen week1 team 842

From the rules, it is difficult to tell if this is legal or not.

Either way, though, have you considered this -

If you add the bumpers to these angled sections, you effectively make the hole in your chassis about 6" narrower - each bumper is 2-1/2 - 3" thick, and they would extend into this opening area.

Depending on how wide the opening is now (hard to tell from the picture) it might become very tight for a 9" game piece.

You might actually have a larger opening by having the front of the robot "flat" with 6" bumpers on each side, giving you a 16" wide opening.

I don't know how this fits in with you ball pick-up ideas, but something else to consider.
__________________
Chris Fultz
Cyber Blue - Team 234
2016 IRI Planning Committee
2016 IndyRAGE Planning Committee
2010 - Woodie Flowers Award - Championship
Reply With Quote
  #11   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 15-01-2009, 20:24
1708xMr.Roboto's Avatar
1708xMr.Roboto 1708xMr.Roboto is offline
Eddie
AKA: Eddie
FRC #1708 (AMPED Robotics)
Team Role: Driver
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Rookie Year: 2007
Location: Mckeesport
Posts: 75
1708xMr.Roboto will become famous soon enough
Send a message via AIM to 1708xMr.Roboto Send a message via MSN to 1708xMr.Roboto
Re: pic: Carmen week1 team 842

Very Nice Chassis, Although I think It's not legal.. Bumpers must me atleast 6"
__________________
Facebook 1 - Chief Delphi 19382193
Reply With Quote
  #12   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 16-01-2009, 01:15
Unsung FIRST Hero
Karthik Karthik is offline
VEX Robotics GDC Chairman
no team
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Rookie Year: 1998
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,346
Karthik has a reputation beyond reputeKarthik has a reputation beyond reputeKarthik has a reputation beyond reputeKarthik has a reputation beyond reputeKarthik has a reputation beyond reputeKarthik has a reputation beyond reputeKarthik has a reputation beyond reputeKarthik has a reputation beyond reputeKarthik has a reputation beyond reputeKarthik has a reputation beyond reputeKarthik has a reputation beyond repute
Re: pic: Carmen week1 team 842

Final answer: http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread.php?t=11170
__________________
:: Karthik Kanagasabapathy ::
"Enthusiasm is one of the most powerful engines of success. When you do a thing, do it with all your might. Put your whole soul into it. Stamp it with your own personality. Be active, be energetic, be enthusiastic and faithful and you will accomplish your object. Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm" -- R.W. Emerson
My TEDx Talk - The Subtle Secrets of Success
Full disclosure: I work for IFI and VEX Robotics, and am the Chairman of the VEX Robotics and VEX IQ Game Design Committees
.
Reply With Quote
  #13   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 16-01-2009, 01:19
Paul Copioli's Avatar Unsung FIRST Hero Woodie Flowers Award
Paul Copioli Paul Copioli is offline
President, VEX Robotics, Inc.
FRC #3310 (Black Hawk Robotics)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Rockwall, TX
Posts: 1,391
Paul Copioli has a reputation beyond reputePaul Copioli has a reputation beyond reputePaul Copioli has a reputation beyond reputePaul Copioli has a reputation beyond reputePaul Copioli has a reputation beyond reputePaul Copioli has a reputation beyond reputePaul Copioli has a reputation beyond reputePaul Copioli has a reputation beyond reputePaul Copioli has a reputation beyond reputePaul Copioli has a reputation beyond reputePaul Copioli has a reputation beyond repute
Re: pic: Carmen week1 team 842

Translation: Carmen as shown in the first post is not legal and has no hope of being legal without relocating the angled sides. That stinks.
Reply With Quote
  #14   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 17-01-2009, 17:15
jtd07 jtd07 is offline
Registered User
FTC #2641
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: pittsburgh
Posts: 7
jtd07 can only hope to improve
Re: pic: Carmen week1 team 842

This is kinda off topic but how did you direct connect your toughbox to your wheel??
and does it have bearings in it?
Reply With Quote
  #15   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 18-01-2009, 09:14
lynca's Avatar
lynca lynca is offline
Andrew Lynch
FRC #2587 (DiscoBots)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,612
lynca has a reputation beyond reputelynca has a reputation beyond reputelynca has a reputation beyond reputelynca has a reputation beyond reputelynca has a reputation beyond reputelynca has a reputation beyond reputelynca has a reputation beyond reputelynca has a reputation beyond reputelynca has a reputation beyond reputelynca has a reputation beyond reputelynca has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to lynca
Re: pic: Carmen week1 team 842

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtd07 View Post
This is kinda off topic but how did you direct connect your toughbox to your wheel??
and does it have bearings in it?
One way of directly connecting a toughbox to a wheel is a 1/2" keyed hub (see link) for the 1/2" output shaft of the toughbox.

http://andymark.biz/am-0077.html
__________________
History: 624 - Cryptonite --> 118 - Robonauts --> 2158 - AusTIN CANS --> 2587 DiscoBots
Bio: Andrew Lynch "How I Work" ---- LinkedIn , Facebook, Twitter
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
pic: Robot-Week1 Brad Voracek Extra Discussion 13 16-01-2009 11:44
pic: Team 842 in Hispanic Magazine falconmaster Extra Discussion 5 07-10-2008 19:28
pic: 1889 Team HAZE's frame (week1) Tytus Gerrish Extra Discussion 8 19-01-2007 02:23
pic: installed battery team 842 falconmaster Robot Showcase 11 04-02-2006 09:36
pic: Turret team 842 falconmaster Robot Showcase 3 01-02-2006 17:28


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:27.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi