Go to Post To my surprise, purple painted air tanks were illegal last year. AB - Andy Baker [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > ChiefDelphi.com Website > Extra Discussion
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 12-01-2009, 11:04
Paul Copioli's Avatar Unsung FIRST Hero Woodie Flowers Award
Paul Copioli Paul Copioli is offline
President, VEX Robotics, Inc.
FRC #3310 (Black Hawk Robotics)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Rockwall, TX
Posts: 1,391
Paul Copioli has a reputation beyond reputePaul Copioli has a reputation beyond reputePaul Copioli has a reputation beyond reputePaul Copioli has a reputation beyond reputePaul Copioli has a reputation beyond reputePaul Copioli has a reputation beyond reputePaul Copioli has a reputation beyond reputePaul Copioli has a reputation beyond reputePaul Copioli has a reputation beyond reputePaul Copioli has a reputation beyond reputePaul Copioli has a reputation beyond repute
Re: pic: Carmen week1 team 842

Fredi,
The robot looks great so far. If you are intending to place 6" of bumper on the internal, angled side then I think you are meeting the intent of the rule. However, the rule as written as a few wierd nuances that may get you in trouble.

Here is what I suggest:

1. Write another Q & A showing the exact picture of your robot with bumpers on all sides you intend to place them.

2. In the Q & A clarify theat the bumpers are all made per the BUMPER rules (plywood, etc.)

3. Specifically ask if the BUMPERS on the angled internal sides are considered BUMPERS or not. Ask if they will be considered in the robot weight or BUMPER weight.



What troubles me is that the bumpers on the internal sides are not really legal BUMPERS becasue they are not mounted to the BUMPER Perimeter. My question is how can you cover all corners with legal BUMPERS if one side of the corner is not part of the BUMPER PERIMIETER?

Good luck with getting clarification. WE decided to go traditional wide body becasue we do not have the patience to deal with non-answers from the GDC on such a mundane subject such as bumpers.

Paul
Reply With Quote
  #2   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 12-01-2009, 11:18
Ian Curtis Ian Curtis is offline
Best Available Data
FRC #1778 (Chill Out!)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Puget Sound
Posts: 2,521
Ian Curtis has a reputation beyond reputeIan Curtis has a reputation beyond reputeIan Curtis has a reputation beyond reputeIan Curtis has a reputation beyond reputeIan Curtis has a reputation beyond reputeIan Curtis has a reputation beyond reputeIan Curtis has a reputation beyond reputeIan Curtis has a reputation beyond reputeIan Curtis has a reputation beyond reputeIan Curtis has a reputation beyond reputeIan Curtis has a reputation beyond repute
Re: pic: Carmen week1 team 842

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Copioli View Post
What troubles me is that the bumpers on the internal sides are not really legal BUMPERS becasue they are not mounted to the BUMPER Perimeter. My question is how can you cover all corners with legal BUMPERS if one side of the corner is not part of the BUMPER PERIMIETER?
[EDIT]See GaryVoshol's post below, my interpretation is incorrect[/EDIT]

Paul,

My interpretation has always been that an "exterior corner" is one with both both edges (aka sides of the corner) on the BUMPER PERIMETER. This interpretation would be consistent with the images and text in Update #2. I'm working on getting our password to post in the Q&A.

Does this interpretation seem reasonable to anyone else?
__________________
CHILL OUT! | Aero Stability & Control Engineer
Adam Savage's Obsessions (TED Talk) (Part 2)
It is much easier to call someone else a genius than admit to yourself that you are lazy. - Dave Gingery

Last edited by Ian Curtis : 12-01-2009 at 12:01.
Reply With Quote
  #3   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 12-01-2009, 11:24
GaryVoshol's Avatar
GaryVoshol GaryVoshol is offline
Cogito ergo arbitro
no team
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Royal Oak, MI
Posts: 5,748
GaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond repute
Re: pic: Carmen week1 team 842

Quote:
Originally Posted by iCurtis View Post
My interpretation has always been that an "exterior corner" is one with both both edges (aka sides of the corner) on the BUMPER PERIMETER. This interpretation would be consistent with the images and text in Update #2. I'm working on getting our password to post in the Q&A.

Does this interpretation seem reasonable to anyone else?
While your interpretation sounds entirely reasonable, it can't be. That's not how BUMPER PERIMETER is defined:
Quote:
BUMPER PERIMETER – the polygon defined by the outer-most set of exterior vertices on the ROBOT (without the BUMPERS or Trailer Hitch attached) that are within the BUMPER ZONE. To determine the BUMPER PERIMETER, wrap a piece of string around the ROBOT at the level of the BUMPER ZONE - the string describes this polygon. The BUMPER PERIMETER may extend up to, but cannot exceed, the maximum ROBOT volume constraints defined in Rule <R11>.
Carmen's front corners with the acute frame angles are outermost vertices, and so by definition are on the BUMPER PERIMETER.

An entirely reasonable interpretation, in my estimation, would be to allow 842 to mount non-standard bumpers on the angled pieces such that with the standard BUMPERS on the side the corners are fully protected. The angled pieces would have to count in the robot size and weight. Whether that reasonable (IMO) interpretation will pass, well I guess it's up to them to gamble or not.

And the GDC is fond of saying, "We do not comment on particular robot designs. Here's the rule."
__________________
(since 2004)

Last edited by GaryVoshol : 12-01-2009 at 11:28.
Reply With Quote
  #4   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 12-01-2009, 12:00
Ian Curtis Ian Curtis is offline
Best Available Data
FRC #1778 (Chill Out!)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Puget Sound
Posts: 2,521
Ian Curtis has a reputation beyond reputeIan Curtis has a reputation beyond reputeIan Curtis has a reputation beyond reputeIan Curtis has a reputation beyond reputeIan Curtis has a reputation beyond reputeIan Curtis has a reputation beyond reputeIan Curtis has a reputation beyond reputeIan Curtis has a reputation beyond reputeIan Curtis has a reputation beyond reputeIan Curtis has a reputation beyond reputeIan Curtis has a reputation beyond repute
Re: pic: Carmen week1 team 842

Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryVoshol View Post
While your interpretation sounds entirely reasonable, it can't be. That's not how BUMPER PERIMETER is defined:Carmen's front corners with the acute frame angles are outermost vertices, and so by definition are on the BUMPER PERIMETER.

An entirely reasonable interpretation, in my estimation, would be to allow 842 to mount non-standard bumpers on the angled pieces such that with the standard BUMPERS on the side the corners are fully protected. The angled pieces would have to count in the robot size and weight. Whether that reasonable (IMO) interpretation will pass, well I guess it's up to them to gamble or not.

And the GDC is fond of saying, "We do not comment on particular robot designs. Here's the rule."
<R08> mentions outermost exterior vertices. The term exterior is never defined, and I always defined it in my head as " both 'sides' of the corner are on the BUMPER PERIMETER."

However, reading the rules and looking at Carl Hayden's robot, I see where my definition falls apart. If their bumpers on the front corner are not exterior vertices, then they have no BUMPER PERIMETER. Yup, I was wrong.
__________________
CHILL OUT! | Aero Stability & Control Engineer
Adam Savage's Obsessions (TED Talk) (Part 2)
It is much easier to call someone else a genius than admit to yourself that you are lazy. - Dave Gingery
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
pic: Robot-Week1 Brad Voracek Extra Discussion 13 16-01-2009 11:44
pic: Team 842 in Hispanic Magazine falconmaster Extra Discussion 5 07-10-2008 19:28
pic: 1889 Team HAZE's frame (week1) Tytus Gerrish Extra Discussion 8 19-01-2007 02:23
pic: installed battery team 842 falconmaster Robot Showcase 11 04-02-2006 09:36
pic: Turret team 842 falconmaster Robot Showcase 3 01-02-2006 17:28


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:27.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi