FCAT dilemma -- your opinion?

[GaryVoshol]

I'd check to see if any sports teams were given any exemptions, even if for only an hour or two at the end of the day.

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by VEI Dude

Okay, so BEST I've not heard of -- I will investigate.

BEST is a fantastic competition. It is one of the competitions that the more the team puts into it, the more they can get out of it. It helps students and mentors develop in a multitude of areas and provides an opportunity for great competition.

Our kickoff is coming up very soon - September 13. It is a fall competition. If you have any questions, please feel free to send me a pm. I'll be glad to help in any way.

I've had the privilege of meeting members of HAZE and have been impressed by the enthusiasm and willingness to learn in the students and in the adults I've spoken with. Pretty cool assets for a team. Good luck with your decisions.

Jane

[VEI Dude]

I've done some preliminary investigation on BEST, but concerned about the dates coming up very soon, as I'm out of the country until mid next week, and we are just getting things rolling for this year, with a new sponsor, etc.

Hey -- you're Purple Haze -- we know you too. We actually just changed our name -- to be announced when we get a logo.

Hey -- you're in Austin. I used to live there, and not sure why I moved. Best place in the U.S. I ever lived. I do get back there every year or so, and hoping to make it for the next Maker Faire.

Cheers,
-Neil.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by GaryVoshol

I'd check to see if any sports teams were given any exemptions, even if for only an hour or two at the end of the day.

If there's a statewide blackout, I'm guessing that whoever does the scheduling knows enough to not schedule out-of-allowed-range games for any team.

If I were you, I'd start seriously considering VRC, especially if you already have the VEX system.

[JB987]

We have run into a similar situation in the past here in Las Vegas when our state proficiency test week coincided with our regional. Our district was sensible enough to allow the few kids affected (10th and 11th graders on teams) to make up whatever test was missed the following week during normally scheduled make up dates. All states have make up times so they can get the attendance % requirement for the tests. There are certainly other kids not on robotics teams being accommodated, why not ones who really have a good excuse!

[Monty Python]

FTC is also a great option, especially if you want to continue your affiliation with FIRST. There are many different regionals throughout the year and cost would no longer be an issue for you guys.

[Tristan Lall]

Originally Posted by EricH

If there's a statewide blackout, I'm guessing that whoever does the scheduling knows enough to not schedule out-of-allowed-range games for any team.

Gary might be hinting at the possibility of exploiting any double standard that might exist.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Tristan Lall

Gary might be hinting at the possibility of exploiting any double standard that might exist.

This is true. However, I'm pointing out that if the sports folks are smart, they've avoided the issue entirely.

On a somewhat-related note, I know of a case where there was a schedule conflict with the FE exam. This was resolved by moving one of the dates balk a couple of weeks--now the same people are complaining about running into graduation weekends. Note that there is another event in the same competition, on another month...

Sooner or later, everyone runs into something like this. You have to adapt. My comments earlier about getting the district to help with funding for an outside-the-state event were meant to highlight, for the district, that by enforcing the rules, they would be losing some money (per-student payments from whoever gives those, possibly even more due to helping the team compete elsewhere, etc.)

[Gary Dillard]

Hi Neil. Sorry to hear that the issue hasn't improved (I've posted on the FCAT problem in the forums before). Here's some additional background if it helps you push your case (going from memory here but I'm pretty sure it's accurate) - I tried running these things to ground but always hit a road block.

1) The FCAT date ranges are set by the state, but the county determines some of the specific test dates. I tried to get the academy advisor to present the conflict to the appropriate people at the school board (department of assessment) prior to the schedule being published but didn't get any support.
2) All of the testing during that period is not necessarily FCAT. In 2008 part of the testing was actually the NRT (not required for students to graduate, just a school assessment test). Not sure if that is the case this year.
3) If you read the "blackout period" policy (the link on the school board website doesn't work), it was pretty clear to me that the intent is considerably different from the way it is being applied. Here is what the Palm Beach County Student handbook says:

FCAT Blackout Period
Each year our school district takes very seriously that schools are teaching the standards and preparing for the state testing (FCAT). To minimize the interruptions in the final preparation for these tests, district meetings are not scheduled for school based personnel (teachers and administrators) from late January through the March testing. This period is referred to as the FCAT Blackout Period.

It says nothing about field trips or extracurricular events, but it is being universally applied that way. If they took the time to put a paragraph in the student handbook about a blackout period and the only impact they mention is the lack of district meetings during that time, doesn't that seem like that's all it affects? I pointed this out to the principal and he said he was sure that it was being applied as the superintendent intended, but I was never able to discuss that with Dr. Johnson.

4) One option to consider is to contact the media, one of the local TV stations - I think if you point out the impact this blackout period is having on the educational opportunities for students it will make a good story. Show them the inconsistency in the blackout policy wording and how it is being applied. It is more than robotics - while googling for the blackout policy I found an article from the local arts coordinator who said that museums are impacted when scheduling special programs. I suspect that will have a large influence.

I had to fight a problem with the bookkeeper at the school up here, which I didn't discover until build season when I was going to order material. She stated that I had to get approval ahead of time for all expenses rather than getting reimbursed. She said if I wanted to change the policy I'd have to contact my legislator because it was "state law". After waiting 2 weeks for the approval, I called the school board (after I couldn't find the "state law") and they said it was just their general policy, but they understood the impact to our build season and said they would make an exception so I could proceed. It cost us 1/3 of our build season but we're set for next year. If you can find the right people, sometimes you can get a change made.

[Tom Line]

We had the same issues with MEAP test taking in another activity I was involved in, and they had the exact same response "We don't care, we come first, this is the way it's going to be". Especially since the kids from the activity tend to score higher on the tests and they desperately needed them to bring up the averages.

I hate to say it, but I disagree with your comment about simply going sending a bad message to the kids. Obeying those in authority is usually a good thing, but not when what they're telling you to do is stupid and they refuse to see it.

[Molten]

Originally Posted by Tom Line

Obeying those in authority is usually a good thing, but not when what they're telling you to do is stupid and they refuse to see it.

Lets look at the messages sent by either approach. If you follow your superiors you are telling them it is important to follow the rules even if it is a major inconvenience. Not a bad message really. I mean, they might get pushed around by bosses if they take it too far. But overall, not bad.

If you don't follow your superiors, you are telling them it is important to get the job done no matter what. Also not a bad message. However, if they take this too far. They might lose a job over it. (Similarly, if you go against your superiors they might disband your team)

Both messages can be good if taken in the right light and context. However either one can be taken too far. Be sure to show your students there is a balance between getting the job done and following authority. If you don't follow authority, be prepared to take any repercussions. As long as the repercussions is better then not completing the task, I can fully understand why you would consider just taking the punishment and getting the job done.

In this case though, the repercussions seem too great for the problem at hand. Simply put, I'd take what you can get it and be happy with it. Rock the boat too much and it will tip. The best advice I can give is find a new proper channel. There are always many. Some of which were mentioned above. I don't know if things are the same there, but in my home town anyone could get a meeting with the mayor. You might try that. If nothing else, you could get a big name supporting you.

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by Tom Line

Obeying those in authority is usually a good thing, but not when what they're telling you to do is stupid and they refuse to see it.

Stupid rules are still rules. They're not meant to be broken, they're meant to be changed.

One issue here seems to be that the "rule" prohibiting the team from attending the regional is arguably a misinterpretation or misapplication of the intent of the policy. That's something to work with.

[purduephotog]

I understand the efforts you are trying to make here- and they may require bigger guns than you, the students, and the mentors can bring to the table.

Why don't you consider mailing your regional director for FIRST and ask him to escalate your concerns up the chain? Being an outside force he (she) may be able to bring in legal counsel as well to help interpret the laws that the school district has made.

Don't do this alone- use the FIRST structure that is available to help you.

If you don't know who your regional director is, try emailing Bill at Bill's Blog
http://frcdirector.blogspot.com/

[Salbert]

We (MARS) have a good relationship with our principal, allowing us to be the only club allowed to do stuff during the blackout period. Let the principal know how important the club is and he can help you out. Keep in mind this event is educational.

[IBdrummer]

Originally Posted by Salbert

We (MARS) have a good relationship with our principal, allowing us to be the only club allowed to do stuff during the blackout period. Let the principal know how important the club is and he can help you out. Keep in mind this event is educational.

I'd show him how FIRST was featured in the discovery channel commercial.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0jZzBEKIMc

I'd be impressed by it.