The Downside of Having More Engineers

[dtengineering]

Just because you study engineering at university doesn't mean that you need to work as a P.Eng.

Engineering is a fabulous background for many careers.

Jason

[Jon Jack]

My dentist also has a civil engineering degree, with a PE.

On a different note,

Outsourcing definitely has a cost associated with it. The company I work for has started moving a lot of our overseas manufacturing back to the United States. Typically you'd think we'd be spending more, but in reality we're actually saving money. Here's an article about it.

In short, there is a hidden cost in doing business overseas. While the cost on paper might be less, you have to think about the number of defective parts you're receiving from the manufacturer and how that effects your ability to move products out the door.

[DonRotolo]

Originally Posted by RobertG

however, few people seem to realize the basic economic principle that an increase in the supply of labor without an increase in the demand for labor will lead to lower wages. While a few more engineers will be employed, they will be making less money.

Well, I have an engineering background; I'm not an economist but I understand the concepts.

On the surface, your argument is absolutely correct - supply and demand do interact in the workforce, just as in trade in goods and services. This is a basic economic principle.

However, the supply of engineers in the USA is far less than the demand, even if we limit engineers to engineering jobs. So there goes that argument. In fact, the IEEE is hosting a summit later this year in Munich to discuss this issue precisely (how do we educate more engineers?). Reports from New Zealand, USA, and the United Kingdom all show a significant demand above supply, while the US Bureau of Labor Statistics indicates the growth rate for engineering jobs is about average, but the prospects for employment are good.

So, while I agree with your premise, additional research shows that our best economic forecasters believe that demand will increase faster than supply.


OK, moving in a different direction: The general elements of an engineering education - advanced math, the scientific method, data analysis and error, project management, etc - turn out to be quite valuable in their own right. My opinion is that more than 50% of all engineers are not doing engineering in the strict sense, but are using their skills to benefit other segments of the business world. For example, I'm an electrical engineer, yet today I develop training courses as an instructional designer. My EE background helps me considerably in this task, since I need to understand the systems I'm trying to explain to mostly non-technical people. Oh, and I am extremely happy and satisfied with my work - it took me 20 years to discover what I love to do, and another 5 to get a job doing it.


So, if you're thinking of an engineering degree, get one and you'll likely never go hungry.

[Chris Hibner]

Originally Posted by Don Rotolo

OK, moving in a different direction: The general elements of an engineering education - advanced math, the scientific method, data analysis and error, project management, etc - turn out to be quite valuable in their own right. My opinion is that more than 50% of all engineers are not doing engineering in the strict sense, but are using their skills to benefit other segments of the business world. For example, I'm an electrical engineer, yet today I develop training courses as an instructional designer. My EE background helps me considerably in this task, since I need to understand the systems I'm trying to explain to mostly non-technical people. Oh, and I am extremely happy and satisfied with my work - it took me 20 years to discover what I love to do, and another 5 to get a job doing it.


So, if you're thinking of an engineering degree, get one and you'll likely never go hungry.

I just want to provide a real life example of what Don says - especially the bold part.

I have a BS and MS in mechanical engineering. I did that for 10 years and decided it would be fun to turn my hobby into my job. I quit engineering in May of 2006 for a career as an airline pilot. I did that at one company for about 2.5 years, then switched to a different company for 1 year. Due to various factors, the company that I was working for decided to park 23 airplanes which results in about 230 pilots being furloughed. Since I was in the bottom 230 on the pilot seniority list, I was furloughed November 1st of 2009. Thanks to my engineering degrees, I began working again as an engineer December 1st of 2009. Not too bad to be out of work for only one month given the state of the economy and the unemployment rates.

Due to the union contracts in the pilot world, the company is required to recall pilots on furlough before they can hire anyone new off the street. So when times get better, I'll be given the choice to go back to flying. Will I do it? I don't know yet, but it sure is nice having a great paying engineering job while most of my fellow pilots of furlough are collecting unemployment while looking for jobs that pay barely better than minimum wage. My engineering degrees are paying off big time.

[Kims Robot]

A great topic to stir up thought, and some great responses... a lot of thought in all of them

A few things come to mind... while overall engineering is a great career and supply/demand is favorable, I have seen instances where there is oversupply. Granted its location-based... but ask any aeronautical or mechanical engineering student that graduated in the northeast in 2002 or this year... jobs are NOT just falling at their feet. They may have to locate away from their families, away from home, even across the country to get a job in the US as an engineer. While most Aero's I knew when I graduated (2002), ended up with jobs, I would say 99% of them were as mechanical engineers, not the profession they chose exactly. I also know that more often than other years, the year I graduated and last year/this year there were a lot more college students that didnt have job offers before they graduated. Its already a little of a tough field.

Now if you are willing to think outside the box and not necessarily "be who you intended to be" there are a lot more engineering jobs than you might imagine. Honestly, I never really knew "systems engineer" was a title until I was graduated and got offered a job as one. I still apply all my engineering skills, and a lot of systems engineers have an electrical background, but I didnt get a job as "an electrical engineer".

While I see a lot of the shortages of supply most years (it was a pain when I was recruiting and offer after offer for the "good college engineers" got turned down), we do have to be careful that it follows the economy, and to understand and set expectations appropriately. Good college and good grades are still huge factors in getting a job right out of college.

All this said, I dont think we will see supply exceed demand any time soon, with the retiring generations, and the still slow growth of STEM interest, I dont think having a program like FIRST encouraging kids is going to overfill our bucket for quite some time.

And as Jason points out, just because you have an engineering degree doesnt mean you HAVE to be an engineer

[RobertG]

It sounds like there might be such high demand for engineers that the supply curve for engineers is nearly vertical. This means that higher wages do not attract more applicants than lower wages. If this is the case then a small increase in supply (right shift of the supply curve) will not decrease wages. Is this portrayal of the engineering industry accurate?

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by RobertG

It sounds like there might be such high demand for engineers that the supply curve for engineers is nearly vertical. This means that higher wages do not attract more applicants than lower wages. If this is the case then a small increase in supply (right shift of the supply curve) will not decrease wages. Is this portrayal of the engineering industry accurate?

I think the overall issue is a little more complicated than basic economics.

[Tetraman]

Any of you Engineers who want to become Industrial Designers, just let me know. I'll show you the real ways of designing.

But in seriousness, I never had the mind for the engineering part of FIRST, but FIRST did lead me to use my artistic mind to Industrail Design. I kinda wish that FIRST would put asthetics into a greater spotlight.

[skimoose]

Originally Posted by RobertG

It sounds like there might be such high demand for engineers that the supply curve for engineers is nearly vertical. This means that higher wages do not attract more applicants than lower wages. If this is the case then a small increase in supply (right shift of the supply curve) will not decrease wages. Is this portrayal of the engineering industry accurate?

Yes, this is more accurate assessment of the engineering profession in general.

Many people posted great information.

Kim is correct that at any time there can be regional or industry based oversupplies of engineers, but one of the keys with the engineering field is a broad knowledge base. Advanced degrees may narrow your field of expertise, but your BS degree has given you tools which can be used in a very diverse number of industries. Sometimes finding a good job just means broadening your search into other industries that you hadn't thought about before.

As the other posts here have shown, I would contend that possessing an engineering degree makes you more employable than any other degree including business. Nearly all of the best managers and leaders I've worked under were originally engineers, not business majors.

Now if we could just get to a majority of politicians being engineers instead of lawyers we might get this country moving again.

[Rick TYler]

Originally Posted by Jon Jack

In short, there is a hidden cost in doing business overseas. While the cost on paper might be less, you have to think about the number of defective parts you're receiving from the manufacturer and how that effects your ability to move products out the door.

*cough* Boeing 787 *cough*

[Steve W]

Originally Posted by Jon Jack

My dentist also has a civil engineering degree, with a PE.

That would be great experience. He can build bridges, make a dam, drill and and do proper surveys. What more could be asked for.

[indieFan]

This post is meant to be all in fun. It does respond to the previous post, but it does not actually contribute to the discussion.

Originally Posted by Steve W

That would be great experience. He can build bridges, make a dam, drill and and do proper surveys. What more could be asked for.

I've heard of "bridges" for mouths and "drilling" for cavities in teeth. I suppose by "surveys" you mean checking the x-rays and/or the mouth for any anomalies and all. But I've never heard of a "dam" in dentistry. Has anyone else?

indieFan

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by indieFan

I've heard of "bridges" for mouths and "drilling" for cavities in teeth. I suppose by "surveys" you mean checking the x-rays and/or the mouth for any anomalies and all. But I've never heard of a "dam" in dentistry. Has anyone else?

From Wikipedia:

A dental dam (sometimes known as a "Kofferdam"--from German), is used mainly in endodontic treatment and when putting fillings into teeth. They are thin squares of latex rubber. Silicone versions are available for those with latex allergies.

Basically, it's a latex sheet fit over a mouth, with a precisely sized hole for the tooth being operated on.

[Vikesrock]

Originally Posted by indieFan

I've heard of "bridges" for mouths and "drilling" for cavities in teeth. I suppose by "surveys" you mean checking the x-rays and/or the mouth for any anomalies and all. But I've never heard of a "dam" in dentistry. Has anyone else?

The term you want to search for is "Dental dam". Here's a definition I found

Originally Posted by Dictionary.com

Also called rubber dam. a thin piece of latex placed over the tooth or teeth being treated during endodontic treatment or other dental work.

I will warn anyone attempting to find more information on this subject that when searching the vast majority of results will be for a non-dental use and may be inappropriate for some users of the forum.

[GGCO]

Originally Posted by dtengineering

Just because you study engineering at university doesn't mean that you need to work as a P.Eng.

Engineering is a fabulous background for many careers.

Jason

Exactly what I think! Statistics show that most people who graduate from College don't actually work in their field of study later on in life.

I had this discussion with my parents. They were concerned that engineering jobs would be soon shipped overseas. They're totally wrong - U.S. engineers will always be in demand, as long as they're the best in the world. Besides, if you have social and communication skills along with a background in engineering, you can really "go places". The phrase "geeks will run the world" is partially true - it really should be "personable geeks will run the world".