pic: Bumper idea - legal?

[Alex Cormier]

Originally Posted by Formerly Famous

Sorry about that. I fixed it. (That Submit Your Questions Here" forum is well hidden... )

Sorry about that everyone,
Rion

Has it been submitted? Answered yet?

[m^3]

Formerly Famous submitted it, but I don't see it in the submit area, so maybe the GDC removes them from the submit area until they post the answer in the responses section. Another possibility is that they put something in the team update (don't those usually come out on Tuesday?).

IF this gets approved, anyone is welcome to use it. The more people that use it, the more we can develop and tweak it for next year.

This might explain the idea a little better. The sections on the right and left side would be on the sides of the bumper.

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...eat=directlink

[Chris is me]

Instead of velcro, perhaps a line of several snap fasteners would work better. Same repeatability, a bit more grip.

[m^3]

The snap fasteners sound good. Using grommets and pulling them over a post should work as well. The tension from compressing the noodles as you pull the flap back should hold it.

Read all about snap fasteners here:
http://www.snapsource.com/faqs/introtosnaps.php
The only question is if they are strong enough.

[DRH2o]

Looks like it is legal --- if I am reading this right.

Alternately, the ROBOT may use changeable BUMPER covers. The BUMPER covers
− may be removable, reversible, or fixed

From Update #9 http://www.usfirst.org/uploadedFiles...Update%209.pdf

[Bob Steele]

I think we all need to see that the GDC can recognize and value good and creative ways to play the game. They can see a good solution and are willing to make it possible to use it...

A round of applause for them!!

And now a bigger round of applause for the ingenious inventors of this bumper idea..!!!

Thank you for sharing!!!

When we share .... everyone benefits....!!

see you on the field...
now we just have to figure out how to sew these...!!

[m^3]

Well I guess that answers my question... now we just have to build them

Better get to work, I'll be sure to post some pictures when we finish.

Anyone's welcome to use this design (or come up with other methods and post them!), but make sure you follow all the rules and build them robustly. On another note, it's pretty cool our idea made it into a team update...

<R12> The color of the BUMPERS will be used to identify the ALLIANCE to which the ROBOT has been assigned, red or blue. Therefore, each ROBOT must be able to display red BUMPERS and blue BUMPERS. This may be done via either of two acceptable methods:
A. Each ROBOT may be built with two complete sets of interchangeable BUMPERS, one red and one blue. If this method is chosen, the BUMPERS must be identical except for the color of the covering fabric (see Rule <R07-F>).
B. Alternately, the ROBOT may use changeable BUMPER covers. The BUMPER covers
− may be removable, reversible, or fixed
− must completely enclose the BUMPERS
− must show only a single color such that when the BUMPER covers are in use, only fabric of the assigned ALLIANCE color may be visible.
− must be constructed solely of fabric and a fastening/restraining system to hold the cover in place. The fastening/restraining system must extend no further than one inch beyond the FRAME PERIMETER (i.e. no further than any other hard parts of the BUMPER - see Rule <R07-N>). Please note that the fastening/restraining system MUST be designed with robust performance in mind. The restraints must hold the
The BUMPERS may be constructed with a fabric covering of one color (see Rule <R07-F>), and then covered with a removable fabric shroud of the opposite color when appropriate. The removable cover must completely enclose the BUMPERS and conceal the contrasting fabric.
removable cover in place during
February 9, 2010
vigorous interactions with other ROBOTS and FIELD elements during the MATCH without allowing the cover to come off.

But this raises the question of if the stitching is allowed... would it count as "fabric?"

must be constructed solely of fabric and a fastening/restraining system to hold the cover in place. The fastening/restraining system must extend no further than one inch beyond the FRAME PERIMETER (i.e. no further than any other hard parts of the BUMPER - see Rule <R07-N>).

[Mike Betts]

Originally Posted by m^3

...But this raises the question of if the stitching is allowed... would it count as "fabric?"

Stitching is used to hem fabric all the time. As long as you use a good strong thread and not something weird like weld rod to stitch the fabric, I can not imagine an inspector who would not allow it.

JMHO,

Mike

[Wayne Doenges]

The only problem I see with the fold over bumper cover design is how do you keep the ends covered in the correct color?

[hipsterjr]

Originally Posted by Wayne Doenges

The only problem I see with the fold over bumper cover design is how do you keep the ends covered in the correct color?

We have made a set of reversable bumpers and that has been the tricky part.

[Cynette]

Originally Posted by Wayne Doenges

The only problem I see with the fold over bumper cover design is how do you keep the ends covered in the correct color?

Originally Posted by hipsterjr

We have made a set of reversable bumpers and that has been the tricky part.

After much wrangling and wrestling with the bumpers, especially with the soft ended ones, we came up with a very simple solution, which was very good because I was at the point of begging to make a second set of bumpers!

Add a strip of fabric to the flap about 2-1/2 inches wide and 5-6 inches long and sew it to align with the seam line joining the two colors where the flap starts. Put sturdy velcro on the strip and a matching piece on the back or the bumper (or on the adjacent bumper). When you fold the ends pull this strip the whole way over the end and secure the velcro. It holds all of the end fabric in place and hides any stray edges of the wrong color.

If you need a better description or photos to help you from tearing the blasted bumpers to shreds, let me know.

[Bob Steele]

We finished our bumpers and have them on the robot. We tailored the corners so they can fold over on themselves and cover... they have velcro.

I will continue to salute the team that came up with this innovate design..and to those that have boldly gone ahead and done it...and made it work.

I will continue to choose to believe that the spirit of the regulations is what is important... the intent ot his rule should be plain to anyone without meadering the rules..or worrying about it.

When you go on the field you should be identified as either the red or the blue alliance based on the bumper color.

Dave mentioned this rule:

<R07-F>. The fabric covering the BUMPERS must be solid red or solid blue in color. Visually, the red or blue must be as close to the corresponding color in the FIRST logo as reasonable (i.e. to a reasonably astute observer, they appear similar). The only markings permitted on the BUMPER fabric cover are the team number (see Rule <R15>).

One can read that many ways.... and if your bumpers are capable of being covered by solid red or blue fabric...the intent AND the word of the rule are satisfied.

Covering means what is on the OUTSIDE of the bumper...

Good luck and have a great time at the competition
We hope to see you on the field...

We have a pic of our robot on CD here with the bumpers on if anyone wants to do a quick search...blue out in the pic...

take care

[iSquid]

Originally Posted by Cynette

After much wrangling and wrestling with the bumpers, especially with the soft ended ones, we came up with a very simple solution, which was very good because I was at the point of begging to make a second set of bumpers!

Add a strip of fabric to the flap about 2-1/2 inches wide and 5-6 inches long and sew it to align with the seam line joining the two colors where the flap starts. Put sturdy velcro on the strip and a matching piece on the back or the bumper (or on the adjacent bumper). When you fold the ends pull this strip the whole way over the end and secure the velcro. It holds all of the end fabric in place and hides any stray edges of the wrong color.

If you need a better description or photos to help you from tearing the blasted bumpers to shreds, let me know.

Could you post the pics or e-mail them to me at calamari.ethan@gmail.com, that would be VERY helpful. I am having a hard time visualizing what you mean. Thanks.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

And the answer to the question...

B. Alternately, the ROBOT may use changeable BUMPER covers. The BUMPER covers
− may be removable, reversible, or fixed
− must completely enclose the BUMPERS
− must show only a single color such that when the BUMPER covers are in use, only fabric of the assigned ALLIANCE color may be visible.

We all win, nice job guys! Take a pat on the back out of petty cash!

[KarenH]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

Instead of velcro, perhaps a line of several snap fasteners would work better. Same repeatability, a bit more grip.

Caution re: snap fasteners. I think Velcro is a bit easier to work with. Snap fasteners:
--can be tricky to attach. You have to get it right on the first try.
--must be precisely aligned
--can sometimes be difficult to fasten
--often come unsnapped when under stress

There's a reason Velcro has outstripped snap fasteners in popularity. So be sure to experiment and test, test, test with extra fabric and bumper assemblies before committing to using snap fasteners on your competition bumpers.

Thread shouldn't be a problem; use of fabric implies use of thread, even more so than use of aluminum or steel implies use of welding. Thread is not generally regarded as a "fastener" the way buttons, snaps, and Velcro are.

Invisible thread would solve the problem of color matching. Sulky brand invisible thread is nicer to work with than some others, but I don't know if it's as strong. Sewing a second line of stitching over the first line of stitching is a good way to make a strong seam using any kind of thread.