pic: Bumper idea - legal?

[dlavery]

Originally Posted by billbo911

I believe Tristan's comment meant that the bumpers themselves could be any color as long as the covers were the correct Red/Blue. This appears to be supported by the rules as well.

Now if the rule said: "The fabric the bumper is constructed of must be solid red or solid blue in color....." then it would be a different story.

Rule <R07> discusses the bumpers. Rule <R12-B> discusses removable/reversible covers. The changes to Rule <R12-B> in Update #9 do not affect the fact that Rule <R07> still requires that the BUMPERS be a single, solid red or blue color.

[waialua359]

I think to save everyone the hastle, just make a set of red and blue bumpers, case closed and worry about building the robot.
Seattle Fabrics doesnt have a shortage of those colors.

[billbo911]

Originally Posted by dlavery

Rule <R07> discusses the bumpers. Rule <R12-B> discusses removable/reversible covers. The changes to Rule <R12-B> in Update #9 do not affect the fact that Rule <R07> still requires that the BUMPERS be a single, solid red or blue color.

OK, in light of BOTH rules <R07> and <R12-B>, I must concede you are correct again.
[Billbo bows in the presence of greatness....again]



(Man, my bald spot is starting to turn red from all the head slaps. Maybe I should read every rule on every detail before I stick my foot in my mouth again.)

[DonRotolo]

Originally Posted by dlavery

Rule <R07> discusses the bumpers. Rule <R12-B> discusses removable/reversible covers. The changes to Rule <R12-B> in Update #9 do not affect the fact that Rule <R07> still requires that the BUMPERS be a single, solid red or blue color.

Dave,
Thank you for your thoughts on the matter.

This not being an official FIRST forum, I am asking your opinion, with the explicit understanding that your opinion (possibly expressed here) carries no weight at all as far as inspection, rules, or competitions are concerned. That is, your opinion is not an official communication from FIRST. Just some guy's opinion.

Is it legal to use the idea presented here?

Don
.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Dave,
The proposed construction method above would present a single piece/color of fabric to the view of all. A good seamstress would of course use a different color when stitching the fabric so that the red side is stitched in red and the blue side in blue. Numbers would of course have to be present on both sides.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Don Rotolo

Dave,
Thank you for your thoughts on the matter.

This not being an official FIRST forum, I am asking your opinion, with the explicit understanding that your opinion (possibly expressed here) carries no weight at all as far as inspection, rules, or competitions are concerned. That is, your opinion is not an official communication from FIRST. Just some guy's opinion.

Is it legal to use the idea presented here?

Don
.

Don, the Q&A said to read Update #9. http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread.php?t=14549

Given that it met all bumper rules with either color showing, my (unofficial) opinion is that it would pass inspection.

[DonRotolo]

Originally Posted by EricH

Don, the Q&A said to read Update #9.

Ah, I didn't get that connection; I was a little fuzzy on how we got from the idea to #9; now I see it was directly through Q&A. OK then.

I don't want to put words into Dave's mouth (but I will anyway) but I think he was just reminding us that there are other issues to consider when skinning a bumper...

[Tristan Lall]

Originally Posted by dlavery

Rule <R07> discusses the bumpers. Rule <R12-B> discusses removable/reversible covers. The changes to Rule <R12-B> in Update #9 do not affect the fact that Rule <R07> still requires that the BUMPERS be a single, solid red or blue color.

The wording you cite in <R07>, paragraph F is ambiguous, because the removable fabric cover is also "[t]he fabric covering the BUMPERS" (it is fabric, it is a cover, and it is identified as part of the bumpers in <R10> and by implication in the preface to <R07>).

If you interpret <R07F> to deal with the fabric directly enclosing the pool noodles, or all fabric in the bumpers, then I agree, your interpretation is accurate. However, if you interpret the same paragraph to refer instead to the single layer of "fabric covering the BUMPERS", then the combination of <R07> and <R12> does not restrict the colour of the rest of the bumper, when properly covered with a red or blue fabric shroud.

Is the intent of that part of the rule simply to permit clear identification, or also to restrict the selection of fabric colours and markings that will be invisible during matches?

[dlavery]

Originally Posted by Tristan Lall

If you interpret <R07F> to deal with the fabric directly enclosing the pool noodles, or all fabric in the bumpers, then I agree, your interpretation is accurate. However, if you interpret the same paragraph to refer instead to the single layer of "fabric covering the BUMPERS", then the combination of <R07> and <R12> does not restrict the colour of the rest of the bumper, when properly covered with a red or blue fabric shroud.

Read the second paragraph of Section 8.3 of The Manual. Apply Occam's Razor. Which interpretation do you think is true?

Or, just show up at a competition with purple and yellow plaid bumpers at a competition and try to pass inspection.




.

[billbo911]

As mentioned before, there is one thing that must be taken into account when using this bumper cover configuration. Do not forget that the ends of the bumpers must also be wrapped in such a way that ONLY the alliance color you are on at that time can be seen.
The banging around that is sure to happen in this game can very easily place considerable forces on the cover fabric. Those forces need to be anticipated and handled in a way that will prevent the cover from slipping and exposing the opposing alliance color.

<R12-B> Alternately, the ROBOT may use changeable BUMPER covers. The BUMPER covers
Each ROBOT may be built with two complete sets of interchangeable BUMPERS, one red and one blue. If this method is chosen, the BUMPERS must be identical except for the color of the covering fabric (see Rule <R07-F>).
− may be removable, reversible, or fixed
− must completely enclose the BUMPERS
− must show only a single color such that when the BUMPER covers are in use, only fabric of the assigned ALLIANCE color may be visible...

I'm getting the distinct impression from Dave that this will be strictly enforced. The bottom line is, you can spend up to $8500 to build a robot and enter a competition, but every rule must be met to the letter or you can't participate. IMHO, that is as it should be. Otherwise, why have rules?

[Alex Cormier]

Does the velcro have to bed red/blue?

[yoda92]

The Velcro on the bumpers does not need to be red/blue because the Velcro should never show
I'd suggest something along the lines of fishing wire for the "heavy duty stitching"

[Tristan Lall]

Originally Posted by dlavery

Read the second paragraph of Section 8.3 of The Manual. Apply Occam's Razor. Which interpretation do you think is true?

When experienced FIRST participants such as Gary and I arrive at a different interpretation than you do—and yet, that interpretation relies only upon the plainest meaning of "cover", i.e. that which keeps the inside from being on the outside—it is hardly fitting to liken it to the difference between lawyers and engineers.