Conflict with Mentor

[Kimmeh]

Communication as also been an issue on the team for as long as I can remember and we've yet to find a way to over come it. I've spent the last few hours looking though team handbooks, and am compiling a list of what I'd like ours to cover. I know many of the mentors would be willing to work on this, but I worry about the willingness of the students. I think they some of them fail to see that the team is for them and they should take the opportunity to speak up so that the team is run the way they want it.

I love FIRST and all that it has to offer. It opens up so many more doors than the average high school activity, and it's something you can continue to do after high school. That is why I want to resolve this.

[Vikesrock]

Originally Posted by Kimmeh

Communication as also been an issue on the team for as long as I can remember and we've yet to find a way to over come it. I've spent the last few hours looking though team handbooks, and am compiling a list of what I'd like ours to cover. I know many of the mentors would be willing to work on this, but I worry about the willingness of the students. I think they some of them fail to see that the team is for them and they should take the opportunity to speak up so that the team is run the way they want it.

Our team uses a Google Group for most of our communication. There are certainly features we would like that a Google Group cannot provide, but for the ease of setup it's pretty difficult to beat it.

[Jon Stratis]

Originally Posted by Kimmeh

It's been hard for our team to get a general consensus on anything like a handbook, which is something I'd love to have. We're a "young" team - out of 14 students, we have 1 sophomore, and 3 seniors, the rest of the team are either freshmen or 8th graders, with 3 of them younger than that. In addition, for over half of them, this is their rookie year. Now, more than ever, I'm going to push for the team to commit to this so that something like this cannot happen again.

Don't let being a young team stop you. We started our handbook the summer after our second year... and everyone on the team was either new (joined for our summer program) or had only been there the previous year - no one from the first year remained as student members. The two who really got the handbook going were dedicated members who had just graduated (one had been with the team both years, the other only the second year). So being a young team can't hurt. Additionally, that summer and the following school year, I believe we only had one senior on the team.

From your brief description of the mentor organization on the team, it sounds like it could stand to have a section in the handbook. The lead mentor's job isn't to make all the decisions for the team, despite the power trip some people may be on. They are supposed to ensure the smooth functioning of the team as a whole. In this situation, I would have expected the mentor/teacher/coach who worked with the awards team throughout the year to be the one "responsible" for everything dealing with the chairman's presentation - the lead mentor would only get involved if really needed (for example, the students want to meet and get feedback, but the coach wasn't available). Further, without being a very active part of the team, I'm not sure how the lead mentor can really fulfill his responsibilities - yeah, work comes first, but being out of communication for 2 weeks during a 6 week build season is a serious indication that it might be time to pass the responsibilities to someone else and let him take a smaller role on the team.

[gvarndell]

I get the impression this young lady's role as presenter was a foregone conclusion before it was announced.
There could be very good reasons why she was a better choice, for that specific role, than you.
Many teens are just not good at interacting with adults; maybe she is and the mentor felt you would not be.
I think the mentor could/should have anticipated the emotional fallout and exercised better people skills.
You should not be wondering why you were not chosen.
Even if explaining the reason would have been awkward for the mentor.
Even if the reason doesn't seem at all fair to you.
As others have suggested, talk to other mentors about your feelings in this matter -- but be prepared to listen as well.
This may have been the right decision handled the wrong way.

[dancingfool]

As a student mentor to this team, I have to bring out a few misrepresentations.

Presenters were not identified until the night before (I'm talking like midnight) they were actually going to present, due to poor organization of the project. With the help of the new student, who put in A LOT of time with myself to learn about the process of chairman's and the team. The presentation was completed, visual display was completed, and oral presentation was created, outlined, prepared and practiced throughly by both myself, the lead mentor and other team members including the "new" student.
Just because a team member was not physically at your build site and working on the robot does not mean that they were new and/or not involved, so please, next time make sure you have all of your information before making accusations. I agree dirty laundry should not be aired, I suggest that you talk to the mentor in a professional manner if this is still bothering you.

Also, this mentor was not absent for 2 weeks, this is a gross inflation. He was always either in contact or reachable with a response within at most, an hour. Reguardless, Chief Delphi is NOT the place for this.

[waialua359]

Sounds to me that both sides are true to their own perspectives and that a lack of communication occurred here.
To be honest, this shouldnt be posted here as its not imperative for the CD community to give you solutions/suggestions. But rather, the best way to resolve it is to talk to your mentor directly.
Every team has issues here/there and the best way we resolve our own challenges are discussions and clear communication amongst all members.

[DonRotolo]

Originally Posted by JesseK

These sound like the types of conflicts that occur between professional engineers and Program Managers. The only thing you're 'entitled' to is an explanation

The only reason you would want an explanation is so that you do not make the same mistake again in the future.

Originally Posted by thefro526

I'd suggest sitting down with the mentor in question with at least one other Adult present and discussing your issues. Stay very polite and very impartial and you should get the answer you're looking for, but it may not be what you want to hear.

Originally Posted by eagle33199

I'm not sure how the lead mentor can really fulfill his responsibilities - yeah, work comes first, but being out of communication for 2 weeks during a 6 week build season is a serious indication that it might be time to pass the responsibilities to someone else and let him take a smaller role on the team.

These quotes echo my thoughts exactly.

When I have an issue with a program manager (good call Jesse) I know I'm at least entitled to an explanation. I approach it very openly, and make it perfectly clear that I'm not looking to blame or question the decision, instead my real intention is to get information along the lines of what thefro526 wrote - and I ask them to not mince words or dance around the topic: Say what needs to be said, brutal it may be.

(And, in some cases, it WAS brutal. And I did NOT like hearing it. But further honest reflection showed that it was true. And knowing 'my breath stinks' has helped me far more than any thanks and praise I've ever received.)

While the mentor is delivering their opinion/explanation.whatever, don't say anything (unless you didn't understand a word, then ask for a repeat). Do not interrupt, do not defend yourself - just listen. After they are done, be sure to thank them for their honest feedback, and close the books. Arguing or defending is not how to accept feedback. Someone who shares their opinion cannot be wrong - their opinion is their opinion.

Good luck, I hope you learn something for all this heartache.

[Tom Line]

Originally Posted by Kimmeh

Communication as also been an issue on the team for as long as I can remember and we've yet to find a way to over come it. I've spent the last few hours looking though team handbooks, and am compiling a list of what I'd like ours to cover. I know many of the mentors would be willing to work on this, but I worry about the willingness of the students. I think they some of them fail to see that the team is for them and they should take the opportunity to speak up so that the team is run the way they want it.

I love FIRST and all that it has to offer. It opens up so many more doors than the average high school activity, and it's something you can continue to do after high school. That is why I want to resolve this.

Kimberly, give Chelsea a call. It really sounds like what you need to do is set up a student governance committee, as others have said. Here's another point: your roles and responsibilities should be laid out at the start of the year, and students should be heading each group and making decisions, with the INPUT of the mentors, but not the dictatorship of the mentors.

Without a set process in place before these types of conflicts occur, it's very difficult to reach a amicable and fair resolution because everyone ends up having a conflict of interest.

Lacking a set process, you should have a 'Head Mentor' whose responsibility it is to solve disputes. In the absence of THAT, or should the Head Mentor be the one causing the issues, you really need to have that governance board to fall back on to help resolve the issue.

Checks and balances, with student leadership and responsibility. It's the key to a team running well. Without it, it's all emotion and that never ends up in a good place.

Lastly, I'd like to say that all of this is easy to say, but very very hard to do. It took a very dedicated group of our students to get together and do it after 5 years, and if you asked them every one would say that our bylaws already need changes. You need a group of people who believe it's the right way to do things, and they need the drive to get it done. Think 1776 (the year, not the team).

[Molten]

Originally Posted by dancingfool

Chief Delphi is NOT the place for this.

Originally Posted by waialua359

To be honest, this shouldnt be posted here as its not imperative for the CD community to give you solutions/suggestions.

At first glance, I can see how people might think this. But please re-read the OP. She was clearly giving a little bit of background information from her viewpoint and asking for advice. At first read, I thought this was the usual "dirty laundry" post...but it really isn't. It becomes clear when you ask what the dirty laundry was? There wasn't any being aired. It was simply advice for an appropriate response. She wasn't bashing anyone really. Yes, she made a few erroneous observations. But she wasn't doing it in the tone that leads to something being really negative. I don't believe her post was at all negative towards her team, the student, or really the mentor. She was very professional about it.

A final note: Don's post is an example of why this thread belongs here. That is honestly some of the best advice I've read here in weeks. It is something I still struggle with, but is very wise. If for nothing else, this thread belongs here because it brings out posts like that. Afterall, if we aren't here for some wisdom...what are we here for?

[Katie_UPS]

Originally Posted by dancingfool

Just because a team member was not physically at your build site and working on the robot does not mean that they were new and/or not involved, so please, next time make sure you have all of your information before making accusations.

After following this thread, I was under the impression that Kimmeh spent time in places other than the shop, primarily on chairman's. I understand that there are more components to a team, but that is an unfair line to throw at someone in her position, especially because its seems to not apply.

[dag0620]

Originally Posted by dancingfool

. Reguardless, Chief Delphi is NOT the place for this.

If I may say so...

If anything, I feel that her going to people outside of the team was the smart thing to do. I have had some issues in the past with people on my team. Instead of coming to other FIRST members for advice in a calm fashion for some simple advice like she did, I aired my Dirty Laundry all around the team and did nothing to fix my problem. It didn't turn out well and I have some not so good relations with the said team member as well as many other because of my poor choices.

So there is nothing wrong with her coming to Chief Delphi for Advice. If anything she did the right thing to avoid causing long lasting Hard Feelings with the involved people in her problem

[Kimmeh]

Once again, thank you everyone for your words of advice and support. I truly appreciate it. I will take your advice to heart when I discuss this with the mentor.

I have reached the point where, for the most part, I've let it go. I'm just hurt that I "lost" my spot to present, something I feel I earned, to person that few knew was on the team, after all the work that I put in. I realize that in the scheme of my life, this is but a small thing. Regardless, it doesn't lessen the sting.

Thank you,
Kimberly

[rcmolloy]

Kimmeh,

I know many people on my team have had problems with the mentors and their final opinions. I even was a part of one myself with the drivers on our team. Although it ended in my favor, I know the person that was put out was very upset about the situation. The best thing I told him was to realize that this isn't because you're bad in anyway. This happened to help us become better. The best thing was he was proud of me and our drive team isn't just one driver but all of us communicating to achieve victory.

I know your situation was much different. Next year, show them that you can be a leader and present in a great way. That way, you are the first to be chosen. Most things are politics and we have to live with them. Hell, I play football and all around it's either who is good or not or who they like the most. Impress them Kimmeh with all you got and be yourself. Things happen for a reason and you just need to shine above them!

REMEMBER!!! Actions Speak Louder Than Words!

[Tom Line]

I've now talked with some other people and gotten a slightly clearer picture of the issue. I will simply ask EVERYONE reading this post to refrain from passing any type of judgement on the people named. Simply put, what you have heard here is a very small portion of the overall picture (as is always the case when someone chooses to bring an issue to a forum).

However, I think it's good that Kimmeh came out and let folks know how she felt. Sometimes that can be hard to do when speaking directly to someone and this will help the folks involved understand how she feels.

I will also thank everyone for the wonderful advice. I'm sure it will be put to very good use as this issue comes to a resolution.