At this rate, Team Update #2 should just eliminate the Minibots and replace it with the drive team captains playing rock-paper-scissors to determine the bonus points. - artdutra04 [more]
 Chief Delphi 2011 Game Hint #1
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#541
12-25-2010, 12:43 AM
 RyanReneRobot Registered User FRC #0533 Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: New York Posts: 1
Re: 2011 Game Hint #1

Quote:
 Originally Posted by andgordo558 OMG! An locomotive track over a huge pool, but that wouldn't allow teams to move as freely... hoever "Locomotion" seems like a great name for the game. Teams being forced to make chains seems great, but different teams might have different ideas on how to hook up to other robots. Unless FIRST regulates the ways you can hook up, it won't be very creative. I looked up the invention of the locomotive (1781) so IDK if 229 or 230 means anything. I LOVE this time of year!

Where is this water idea coming from that everyone is speaking about? I've read this whole thread &I dont understand why everyone believes that this may be a water game..
#542
12-25-2010, 12:46 AM
 Randy Picolet Caffeine Addic..um..Afficionado FRC #2159 (RoboPirates) Team Role: Coach Join Date: Jan 2008 Rookie Year: 2007 Location: San Leandro, CA Posts: 30
Re: 2011 Game Hint #1

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Fletch1373 wouldn't it have to be 0 though? the commutative property of addition... infinity - infinity = infinity... -infinity + infinity = -infinity... right?
I think infinity minus infinity is undefined. You can add and multiply (the result is still inifinity) but not subtract or divide. So (somebody correct me if I'm wrong):

inf + inf = inf
(-inf) + (-inf) = -(inf + inf) = -inf
inf x inf = inf
(-inf) x (-inf) = (-1 x -1)(inf x inf) = inf

inf - inf => undefined
inf/inf => undefined

Weird, but infinity is not actually a number, but a concept of increase beyond bounds.

Last edited by Randy Picolet : 12-25-2010 at 03:10 AM.
#543
12-25-2010, 12:57 AM
 Randy Picolet Caffeine Addic..um..Afficionado FRC #2159 (RoboPirates) Team Role: Coach Join Date: Jan 2008 Rookie Year: 2007 Location: San Leandro, CA Posts: 30
Re: 2011 Game Hint #1

Quote:
 Originally Posted by RyanReneRobot Where is this water idea coming from that everyone is speaking about? I've read this whole thread &I dont understand why everyone believes that this may be a water game..
It's an old running gag on game hint threads; it will never happen (for safety and cost reasons). Some folks just like to figure out extremely circuitous/nebulous paths to that conclusion. Like everythiong else here, you can read 'em, join 'em, or ignore 'em. Sometimes they are fairly creative...
#544
12-25-2010, 01:03 AM
 Dustin Shadbolt In a server room somewhere... AKA: Dustin Shadbolt FRC #1555 (Team PULSE) Team Role: Alumni Join Date: Jan 2010 Rookie Year: 2010 Location: Monticello,Indiana Posts: 320
Re: 2011 Game Hint #1

Quote:
 Originally Posted by RyanReneRobot Where is this water idea coming from that everyone is speaking about? I've read this whole thread &I dont understand why everyone believes that this may be a water game..
Just an old tradition on CD.
#545
12-25-2010, 01:17 AM
 EricH New year, new team FRC #1197 (Torbots) Team Role: Engineer Join Date: Jan 2005 Rookie Year: 2003 Location: SoCal Posts: 19,116
Re: 2011 Game Hint #1

Back in the day, there was speculation that there would be water. It is possible to run an FRC robot on a soaking wet field.

However, it is logistically impossible, so it's now just a joke.

As for infinity minus infinity:
1) The origination of this hint was a suggestion that trapping Billfred in a certain field area was worth negative infinity. It isn't, it's worth a caption contest. (JVN is a caption contest and negative infinity.)
2) Depending on how you think of infinity, you could come up with zero (I have an infinite number of robots, and I give you all of them), infinity (I give you half of that number of robots), or a number (I give you all but X finite number of robots). Because there are 3 different answers to the same problem, it is not defined. (And I suppose that you could come up with similar situations to have it be negative.)
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#546
12-25-2010, 03:24 AM
 dlavery Curmudgeon FRC #0116 (Epsilon Delta) Join Date: Jun 2001 Rookie Year: 1996 Location: Herndon, VA Posts: 3,176
Re: 2011 Game Hint #1

Quote:
 However, it is logistically impossible, so it's now just a joke.
I love it when someone tells me I can't do something.

.
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#547
12-25-2010, 03:49 AM
 marwahaha Registered User AKA: Kunal Marwaha FRC #2073 (EagleForce) Team Role: Leadership Join Date: Nov 2010 Rookie Year: 2009 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 5
Re: 2011 Game Hint #1

I know this is late, and most people have gone, but here are some more thoughts...

I like the EVA extra-vehicular activity. but particularly this link:
(From wikipedia)
Quote:
 The first (and only) three-person EVA was performed on May 13, 1992, as the third EVA of STS-49, the maiden flight of Endeavour.[5] Pierre Thuot, Richard Hieb, and Thomas Akers conducted the EVA to hand-capture and repair a non-functional Intelsat VI-F3 satellite. See photo at right.
1992 was the maiden year for FIRST.
also, in the 1992 EVA there were 3 "people" to repair something, working together.... similar to 3 "machines" to do something, working together in an alliance.

Like...coopertition! an idea FIRST has been particularly pushing these past couple of years. And we've had 3-person alliances for a while now.

So maybe the three alliance members are working together to grab or build something or lift each other up, racing the other alliance? This would be non-contact and a serious focus on coopertition and working together.

In addition, pillars could be holding something up, that the goal is to reach or attach an object upon the pillars, working together with your alliance? I like the idea of a second-story but am unsure how it could be truly practical. possibly like the ball-return towers of Breakaway?

Also: if locomotion and 1992 are important, then why not have the field covered in tennis balls? similar to the 1992 game of maize craze. that way, we would tie in the idea of a new "bumpy" playing field for new drive techniques, while working on top of the tennis balls to create something new.

AND: Maize craze was played with a layer of corn as the playing field. A non-smooth playing field has been built before, and having one this year would be yet another reference to the past.

So...idea for a game name? To tie in all of the concepts, i like "Working Upward" or "Building Up" or "Reaching Skyward" or something like that. In 1992 we had to herd the tennis balls, now we work on top, building upon past ideas and innovations.

......................

but another idea for a game name: Smoke and Mirrors.
why? because it sounds cool, and locomotion-->trains-->smoke...and mirrors because the picture is flipped. maybe mirrors has something to do with the task each alliance would receive, like positioning mirrors to point lasers or see the other alliance over a wall...

This will be an interesting game. We will have fun this year
#548
12-25-2010, 09:07 AM
 IndySam Registered User FRC #0829 (Digital Goats) Team Role: Mentor Join Date: Nov 2005 Rookie Year: 2004 Location: Indy Posts: 3,323
Re: 2011 Game Hint #1

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Randy Picolet It's an old running gag on game hint threads; it will never happen (for safety and cost reasons).
Quote:
 Originally Posted by EricH Back in the day, there was speculation that there would be water. It is possible to run an FRC robot on a soaking wet field. However, it is logistically impossible, so it's now just a joke.
Wait, what, a joke?

PS don't poke the bear!
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#549
12-25-2010, 09:55 AM
 nil_lp Registered User no team Join Date: Dec 2010 Rookie Year: 2010 Location: Brazil Posts: 1
Re: 2011 Game Hint #1

#550
12-25-2010, 10:04 AM
 alicen Zebra Committee no team Team Role: Mentor Join Date: Nov 2007 Rookie Year: 2003 Location: The South Posts: 222
Re: 2011 Game Hint #1

I think I've read several times now the suggestion of the entire field being covered in tennis balls to create an uneven terrain (referencing to Maize Craze and "Loco-motion"). Personally, I don't see this as much of an option because there are so many rules implemented for the safety of volunteers and competitors alike.

Remember last year, how you could not walk across the bump carrying your robot? Now imagine a floor covered in tennis balls that you've decided to walk around on for fun. Add 150 pounds of robot and it's a recipe for disaster and hospitals. I realize that some people might try to refute this argument and say they'll add the tennis balls after all the robots are on the field, but logistics of picking up and depositing THAT many tennis balls is insane. The turn over rate for matches would go from 5 minutes to 30. And in the past couple years, the push for more matches (meaning lower turn over rates) has been obvious.

Personally, I think the game is going to be called Locomotion, the game pieces will not be round (the last students to see non-spherical game pieces have now all graduated, or at least are supposed to), and autonomous will have more importance*.

*Every year there is one aspect of the game that is weaker than the others. Human Player for Overdrive for example. I think that based on opinions gathered at regionals and Championships and after, the GDC tries to improve on that aspect to make a more well-rounded game. This is why I think autonomous will gain a lot of importance this year.
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#551
12-25-2010, 10:11 AM
 Dustin Shadbolt In a server room somewhere... AKA: Dustin Shadbolt FRC #1555 (Team PULSE) Team Role: Alumni Join Date: Jan 2010 Rookie Year: 2010 Location: Monticello,Indiana Posts: 320
Re: 2011 Game Hint #1

Quote:
 Originally Posted by dlavery I love it when someone tells me I can't do something. .
#552
12-25-2010, 01:05 PM
 BIGWILLI2081 Registered User FRC #2081 (Icarus) Team Role: Mechanical Join Date: Jan 2010 Rookie Year: 2008 Location: Peoria, Il Posts: 66
Re: 2011 Game Hint #1

Quote:
 Originally Posted by IndySam PS don't poke the bear!
Quote:
 Originally Posted by dlavery I love it when someone tells me I can't do something.
too late!
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#553
12-25-2010, 04:42 PM
 Lil' Lavery TSIMFD AKA: Sean Lavery FRC #1712 (DAWGMA) Team Role: Mentor Join Date: Nov 2003 Rookie Year: 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 6,423
Re: 2011 Game Hint #1

Quote:
 Originally Posted by yarden.saa http://wikileaks.com/ They know what the game is but someone in FIRST caused the site to don't work just a joke - we will know the game at the kick off
FYI, it's not wikileaks.com. It was originally .org, but now has a list of regional mirrors that can be found at http://wikileaks.info/.
#554
12-25-2010, 07:30 PM
 DonRotolo TANSTAAFL FRC #0832 Team Role: Mentor Join Date: Jan 2005 Rookie Year: 2005 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 6,935
Re: 2011 Game Hint #1

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Cuog Something to consider about Penn Station is the copious use of columns in its original construction.
There is more than one Penn station.
Quote:
 Originally Posted by dlavery I love it when someone tells me I can't do something.
Double-dog dare!

(I predict that Mr. Lavery will be dousing me with water when we next meet.)
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#555
12-25-2010, 07:51 PM
 theprgramerdude WPI Freshman AKA: Alex FRC #2503 (Warrior Robotics) Team Role: Mentor Join Date: Feb 2010 Rookie Year: 2008 Location: Brainerd, Minnesota Posts: 347
Re: 2011 Game Hint #1

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Fletch1373 wouldn't it have to be 0 though? the commutative property of addition... infinity - infinity = infinity... -infinity + infinity = -infinity... right?
Infinity minus infinity is undefined. Not all infinity's are created equal (since it's not a defined number), and thus you can't tell when one infinity is equal to another infinity.
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