A ? about NASA grants

[computhief263]

I was just browseing the deadlines for registration and noticed that registration for NASA grants begins on monday.

So i was wondering.....
a)wut exactly is a NASA grant?
b)Can anyteam apply 4 a nasa grant?
c)and how do u apply 4 a nasa grant?

[sanddrag]

A team can only have two years of NASA grants ever. I'm not sure if there is a restriction on which years of existance those are. Usually, the amount is $6000. I don't know how you apply. I think it is online though.

[Joe Ross]

http://robotics.nasa.gov/events/sponsorship.htm

Based on past years, your team won't qualify unless they run out of younger teams that apply.

[KenWittlief]

The primary intention of the NASA grants is to help new teams get started

its hard to find a HS AND a corporate sponser AND engineering mentors AND faculty mentors all at the same time to start a new team

the NASA grant pays the registration fee at a NASA sponsored regional ($5000) and it gives you an extra $1000 in cash to be used to build the robot. That is a great headstart for a new team.

If you are on an existing team, and you are already being funded by your sponsor, then you dont really need a NASA grant (and you probabally wont get one if you apply for it)

but if you are an existing team who has lost their sponsor, or lost an important source of funding, then you would qualify for a NASA grant to get you through the rough times.

If your team is looking at the possibility of not being able to come up with the registration fee for a regional then definately apply. Worse thing that can happen is they might say no.

[Rickertsen2]

Does anyone know exactly where to apply?

[KenWittlief]

check the usfirst.org website - when the NASA grant website opens, im sure they will post a notice there.

[Frank(Aflak)]

Here is how it was explained to me by Mr. Shen (the faculty guy who started our team last year):

First year teams qualify for the grant.

Second year teams qualify for the grant if they can match it.

So we are busy making sure we can match it.


I'm not sure how accurate this is.

[KenWittlief]

that is the first year that you receive a grant from NASA, not your first year as a team

you can only get the NASA grant for two years, and you are correct, you have to get other sponsors lined up

obviously, you cant fund a team for only $6000.

[Frank(Aflak)]

Originally posted by KenWittlief
that is the first year that you receive a grant from NASA, not your first year as a team

you can only get the NASA grant for two years, and you are correct, you have to get other sponsors lined up

obviously, you cant fund a team for only $6000.

'obviously'?

Last year the only cash we got was the NASA grant. Of our other sponsors: One gave us a 30% discount on 80/20, the other gave us a few hundred dollers worth of sprockets, chain, and pillowblocks.

So you CAN fund a team on 6000 if you try . . . . This year we are hoping to have twice that figure . . . .

If we can get 6k of our own (actually, if the school can raise 6k for us, because they don't want us interfereing with THEIR fundraising so they are going to do ours for us . . . ) then NASA will give us 6k and we will all be happy.

[dlavery]

Originally posted by KenWittlief but if you are an existing team who has lost their sponsor, or lost an important source of funding, then you would qualify for a NASA grant to get you through the rough times.

Originally posted by Sanddrag A team can only have two years of NASA grants ever.

Originally posted by KenWittlief that is the first year that you receive a grant from NASA, not your first year as a team you can only get the NASA grant for two years, and you are correct, you have to get other sponsors lined up obviously, you cant fund a team for only $6000.

Originally posted by KenWittlief its hard to find a HS AND a corporate sponser [sic] AND engineering mentors AND faculty mentors all at the same time to start a new team

All of the above comments are flat out wrong, and need to be corrected. None of these individuals speak for NASA, and how we support teams or issue grants.

NASA sponsors three types of grants for FIRST teams. The "regional challenge grants" are the ones with which most are familiar. These grants are given to rookie teams that attend one of the NASA-sponsored regional competition events. The rookie teams may be funded for up to two years, and must generate matching funds to receive their second year of NASA funds. During the first year of the regional event ONLY, a small number of one-year grants may be given to some veteran teams to support the new regional event. These grants are NOT for "getting you through the rough times" if you lose a sponsor. Approximately 120 of these grants, for $6,000 each, will be issued this year.

The second type of grant are those associated with the NASA University Space Grant Consortium programs. These grants are available for up to three years, and are used to encourage growth of the FIRST program in areas of the country where the population of teams is very sparse. For 2002-2004, only teams in North Dakota, South Dakota, Nevada, Oregon and Kansas may apply for these grants. In 2005, the list of eligible states is scheduled to change. 50 of these grants, for $10,000 each, will be issued this year.

The third type of grant is associated with teams that work directly with NASA engineers, and affiliated with the NASA field centers. These are intended to directly support the teams in the local communities around our field centers, and support our "hands-on" participation in the FIRST program. These grants are intended for long-term sustained support of the teams, and do not have a fixed duration. Approximately 18 of these grants, for between $5,000-$30,000 each, will be issued this year.

Additional details on all these options will be made public on the NASA Robotics Education web site when the applications process opens.

Yes, you can fund a team with just $6,000. It isn't easy, and it probably isn't the optimal solution, but every year there are several teams that do it successfully. Pulling together the required resources to have a successful team (an identified set of students, school support, engineers/mentors, a construction facility, etc.), isn't "easy" but no one ever said the FIRST competition was easy. Every year teams manage to do it, and every year we get more applications for the rookie team grants than we have funds to support. So there is solid evidence that at least 120 groups around the country have figured out how to get the resources need to start a team.

-dave lavery
NASA Headquarters

[KenWittlief]

Its not easy to define what a 'rookie team' is

our HS had a team in 97-98 sponsored by Kodak
and in 99 for a couple years sponsored by Gleason Works
then we couldnt get a teacher to sign up as coach for a year so Gleason sponsored at team at a different HS that year
then we re-established the team at our HS again with Gleason as our primary sponsor.

So, which years were we a 'rookie' team? We had 3 different team numbers at our HS so far

were we rookies 3 times then, or only the 1st year with Kodak

and since Kodak had a team with a different HS before they 'moved' to our HS, does that mean we were never really a rookie team at all?

it gets all very fuzzy but not very warm.

[Mr. Van]

I believe that a team is permanently associated with a High School or a group of schools. Not a sponsor, not a coach, etc.

If a team does not enter for a year, its number is not re-assigned, nor should it be. If a team changes High Schools, or becomes part of or is no longer part of a collective of schools, then it would be a new rookie team.

Our "team" started as part of a 5 school group, which disbanded and formed several new "rookie" teams the following year, each with new sponsors, new coaches and new students.

In the end, FIRST really has the bottom-line say on this. New number = rookie team.

-Mr. Van
Robo-Dox

[Allison K]

Originally Posted by Mr. Van

I believe that a team is permanently associated with a High School or a group of schools. Not a sponsor, not a coach, etc.

If a team does not enter for a year, its number is not re-assigned, nor should it be. If a team changes High Schools, or becomes part of or is no longer part of a collective of schools, then it would be a new rookie team.

Our "team" started as part of a 5 school group, which disbanded and formed several new "rookie" teams the following year, each with new sponsors, new coaches and new students.

In the end, FIRST really has the bottom-line say on this. New number = rookie team.

-Mr. Van
Robo-Dox

I've been wondering about this for awhile. My team this year got a number (1313), but we could never raise the full registration fee so we had to drop out and wait for 2005. However by next season, we will have built two robots, run one competition, attended at least two competitions, run a summer science education program for middle school students, and done wokshops for all of our members, even though we will have never participated in FIRST. Does this make us a rookie team or not? If we are a rookie team we will be one veeery experienced one, which means I'm not sure it's fair if we compete against other rookies for Rookie All Star, but if we are not a rookie then we never get the chance to qualify for nationals with rookie all star. On the other hand, all the rookies before the 2004 season never got the chance to qualify by Rookie All Star either. Plus, since funding is our biggest issue (In fact we have everything but a registration fee) we could really use some of the funding options available only for rookies. I don't know what's fair. Any Ideas.

Allison

[Eric Bareiss]

I would say that yes you are aboslutely still a rookie. Consider yourself "red-shirted"; just because you practice with the team doesn't mean you played.

Besides being a technical rookie, there is a lot that changes when you are actually competing. You still never actually competed, you never got the chance to be involved in the competition. There are some teams who are "rookies" but have dozens of mentors that have years of FIRST experience.

Being a rookie is all about your team number.

[dlavery]

Originally posted by KenWittlief
Its not easy to define what a 'rookie team' is

our HS had a team in 97-98 sponsored by Kodak
and in 99 for a couple years sponsored by Gleason Works
then we couldnt get a teacher to sign up as coach for a year so Gleason sponsored at team at a different HS that year
then we re-established the team at our HS again with Gleason as our primary sponsor.

So, which years were we a 'rookie' team? We had 3 different team numbers at our HS so far

were we rookies 3 times then, or only the 1st year with Kodak

and since Kodak had a team with a different HS before they 'moved' to our HS, does that mean we were never really a rookie team at all?

it gets all very fuzzy but not very warm.

This is the classic "grandfather's axe" problem. Grandfather has a favorite axe that he wields with great skill while cutting wood for the family. As he gets older, he passes it along to his eldest son, who then eventually passes it along to his eldest son. Over the course of time the handle of the axe is replaced two different times, the peg in the handle is replaced three times, and the head of the axe is replaced once. The grandson still regards the item as an original family heirloom, and it is still known as "grandfather's axe," even though none of the original parts are still there. At what point does it really stop being "grandfather's axe" and actually become something new?

FIRST teams are made of people - students and mentors. In my humble opinion, it doesn't make one iota of difference if the name of the sponsoring organization or the name of the school changes over time. If the people are the same, it is the same team. Teams can, and do, change sponsors and schools over time. But with each change, if the central core of team members - students and mentors - remains the same, it is still the same team. Over many years individual team members will move in and out of the team. For a team that has been around for ten years, very few - if any - of the members have been there for the entire time. But if the turn-over in team membership has been a slow, evolutionary process and not an abrupt, wholesale change, then in my mind it is still the same team.

FIRST will identify a team as a veteran or a rookie based on the input provided to them. If you tell them you are really a rookie team, they will trust you and take you at your word. They don't have the staff or the resources to police teams and do individual assessments of team status. Does this mean that teams can claim to be rookies when they really are not, and get away with it? Absolutely. Are there some incentives for them to try to do so? Yes, there are (i.e. funding resources that are available to rookies, but not veteran teams "getting through the rough times"). But FIRST is relying on the honesty, integrity, and gracious professionalism of the teams to prevent this. Will some teams abuse this trust? While it is possible, I sincerely hope not. In the end it comes down to the values and ethics utilized by the team, and how they want to behave.

As my grandmother used to say "let your conscience be your guide."

-dave