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Unread 04-25-2018, 09:56 AM
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Re: New to Pneumatics - What to get?

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Originally Posted by Billfred View Post
Why not REV's for half the price? http://www.revrobotics.com/rev-11-1107/

(I'm legitimately asking on the "why", maybe there's something I don't know.)
The one linked above has a digital readout.
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Unread 04-25-2018, 11:40 AM
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Re: New to Pneumatics - What to get?

We went 15 posts before someone said piston.

Better than I expected.
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Unread 04-25-2018, 11:42 AM
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Re: New to Pneumatics - What to get?

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Originally Posted by IndySam View Post
We went 15 posts before someone said piston.

Better than I expected.
And even pneumatic fluid was mentioned before piston.
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Unread 04-25-2018, 11:55 AM
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Re: New to Pneumatics - What to get?

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Originally Posted by IndySam View Post
We went 15 posts before someone said piston.

Better than I expected.
I must be missing something...
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Unread 04-25-2018, 01:50 PM
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Re: New to Pneumatics - What to get?

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Originally Posted by Billfred View Post
Why not REV's for half the price? http://www.revrobotics.com/rev-11-1107/

(I'm legitimately asking on the "why", maybe there's something I don't know.)
Two reasons I would have:
- My link has a fancy schmancy color-changing digital display that shows you the pressure at a glance on the actual robot.
- AD showed me them in person at champs last year and I was impressed.

We've been using that Rev one though on robots recently. Giving drivers & pit crew a dial with the pressure is, at least in my mind, very useful for seeing why something doesn't work as expected

Again though, this presumes unlimited resources. If you're on a budget, a good-old analog dial will do just fine.
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Unread 04-25-2018, 02:56 PM
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Re: New to Pneumatics - What to get?

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Originally Posted by gerthworm View Post
...
We've been using that Rev one though on robots recently. Giving drivers & pit crew a dial with the pressure is, at least in my mind, very useful for seeing why something doesn't work as expected
Not to bash AndyMark because I think they are great, but AD ships same day, every day. Over $50 ships free, (next day for me because I am special, but 2 dasy if you live further away). Regardless of your choice in pressure transducers, you still need the mechanical gauges that show pressure when the power is off. We still have a handful of ebay ones that are similar to the REV one.
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Unread 04-25-2018, 03:07 PM
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Re: New to Pneumatics - What to get?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ARaulinaitis View Post
I must be missing something...
Emphasis mine (note this is from over 10 years ago):

Quote:
Originally Posted by IndySam View Post
The pneumatic cylinders we use (please don't call them pistons) are ...
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Unread 04-25-2018, 03:30 PM
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Re: New to Pneumatics - What to get?

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Originally Posted by GeeTwo View Post
Emphasis mine (note this is from over 10 years ago):
Seems a bit pedantic, but whatever.
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Unread 04-25-2018, 06:32 PM
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Re: New to Pneumatics - What to get?

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Originally Posted by ARaulinaitis View Post
Seems a bit pedantic, but whatever.
I would say it's more didactic.
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Unread 04-25-2018, 10:29 PM
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Re: New to Pneumatics - What to get?

Since you are talking about using vouchers, make sure you use your Bimba one up as well before this week ends! Two free cylinders are great to have for prototyping if nothing else, get a 3" - 4" for testing small flaps or actuating grippers and an 8" - 12" for larger claws or slide extensions.

As for the Clippard voucher, I would get tubing, flow control valves, air tanks and clips, or regulators. You can look at their cylinders too but your voucher won't cover one completely, and I wouldn't pay the extra when it's doubtful it will be the exact size you want next season.

Don't waste your vouchers on fittings, we have a lot of them and are just down the road from you guys, we can share some with you. I've sent you a PM, we'll be around this summer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hrench View Post
If I were 'stocking up', I'd get solenoid valves.

The best value is Automation Direct single solenoid, 5-way. They're much larger and flow more then the Festo that AM sells, but sometimes larger is difficult. Also at $22, easier to 'stock' than the $89 Festo.

Here's the one I buy.
https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Pneumatic_Components/Pneumatic_Valves_-a-_Accessories/General_Purpose_Solenoid_Directional_Control_Air_V alves/5-port_(4-way),_2-pos.,_Body_Ported_-z-_Manifold_(AVS-5,AM_Series)/AVS-5211-24D
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Originally Posted by Tomithy View Post
+1 on those Automation Direct solenoids, they work great. I would recommend the double solenoids instead of the single because from my team's experience they are easier to program, but both are a good value.
These are the bomb, cheaper than basically all other solenoid options and higher flow rates too (you can always dial back with a flow-control valve). They also have a very nice push-button for manual actuation, other solenoids I have worked with tend to have very small buttons or require a screwdriver to use (twist rather than push). And you get the free tubing cutter with the order from AD.
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Unread 04-26-2018, 12:56 PM
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Re: New to Pneumatics - What to get?

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Originally Posted by IndySam View Post
We went 15 posts before someone said piston.

Better than I expected.
Only 6 posts before someone used the term "solenoid" instead of solenoid valve. I know this might seem nit-picky, but we should use (and teach) the correct names for components.

A solenoid is a coil of wire that becomes an electromagnet when an electric current is passed through it. A steel rod can be drawn in by this magnetic force.

Most valves used by FRC teams are solenoid-operated spool valves. A solenoid shifts the spool in one direction, sending air pressure to one end of a pneumatic cylinder, and a 2nd solenoid or spring shifts it in the opposite direction, sending pressure to the other end of the cylinder.

If you haven't read it, I STRONGLY recommend downloading the FRC pneumatics manual. There are also a few good pneumatics videos posted by FRC teams on YouTube.
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Unread 04-26-2018, 01:20 PM
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Re: New to Pneumatics - What to get?

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Originally Posted by Kevin Thorp View Post
Only 6 posts before someone used the term "solenoid" instead of solenoid valve. I know this might seem nit-picky, but we should use (and teach) the correct names for components.

...

Most valves used by FRC teams are solenoid-operated spool valves. A solenoid shifts the spool in one direction, sending air pressure to one end of a pneumatic cylinder, and a 2nd solenoid or spring shifts it in the opposite direction, sending pressure to the other end of the cylinder.
While technically correct about solenoid and solenoid valves... Most of the valves used in FRC are actually pilot operated solenoid valves or pilot operated solenoid valve with spring return. Admittedly it starts getting long winded. The bigger solenoid valves will quickly consume the PCM power budget.

Now if we could get the British to stop calling electrical switches valves and car hoods bonnets... They act like they invented the English language.
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Unread 04-26-2018, 01:52 PM
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Re: New to Pneumatics - What to get?

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Now if we could get the British to stop calling electrical switches valves and car hoods bonnets... They act like they invited the English language.
They invited it everywhere, India, Australia, Canada...
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Unread 04-27-2018, 09:44 PM
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Re: New to Pneumatics - What to get?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankJ View Post
Now if we could get the British to stop calling electrical switches valves and car hoods bonnets...
This has bothered me for a while.. if you speak of a solenoid valve in Britain, do they think you mean a relay?

Though personally, I prefer to call the engine cover a cowling, which is really about half way between a bonnet and a hood.

Edits:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donut View Post
These are the bomb,
Not the correct language for pneumatics devices!

Seriously, get all the mandatory stuff listed in the 2018 manual for pneumatics. Check out the AndyMark's base kit and performance kit, whether to buy it or just use it as a checklist.
The thing that will be most specific is the cylinders; these will be somewhat different depending on the task you intend to perform with them. Designing with cylinders is conceptually similar to motors, but not the same. First, figure out how much work you need the cylinder to do. As the latest example I did, we need to raise a 14 lb manipulator-plus-cube 22 inches, requiring 308 in-lb. Then, as we weren't in a particular hurry (not launching, just lifting), we doubled that to ~600 in-lb. As we can use 60lb/in2, we need a cylinder with a displacement (bore x stroke) of ~10in3. We considered both a Bimba 12 inch stroke, 1-1/16" diameter (0912DX) and a 2 inch stroke, 2-1/2" diameter (FOS-502). By the way, using Bimba parts simplifies the process, once you figure out the code. Just multiply the "power factor" portion of the part number (09 in the first case, 50 in the second), by the "stroke" portion (12 and 2) to get the volume in tenths of cubic inches (108 and 100).

If you need motion to happen fast (that is, you need to get something up to a specific speed quickly to launch it), you may have to multiply by numbers up to about 16 to get the correct volume, and you should use the largest Cv solenoid valves, and short tubing runs from the tank to solenoid valve to cylinder you can manage. In some cases you must even split the load among two or more solenoid valves and cylinders because you can only push so much power through that small orifice.
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Last edited by GeeTwo : 04-28-2018 at 11:04 AM.
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Unread 04-27-2018, 09:52 PM
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Re: New to Pneumatics - What to get?

Tube cutters that cut the tube square.
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