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Unread 01-15-2018, 03:22 PM
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Height/Robot Extension Clarification

Hello Everyone,
Please help in anyway you can with our problem.
We have begun the process of building and designing our robot for the upcoming competition. However, we have hit a bit of a confusing snag which we have found are not answered in the rule manual. Our issue would be:
We do not know how high the robot can extend upwards during the competition. We have looked in the rule manual and besides finding the maximum height the robot can be there is nothing else to consult.

Now, the robot is allowed to be 55 inches tall but since the switch can extend to almost 6 ft tall there is no way that can be right for the extension the robot can make. And, at the same 55 inches for a robot seems a bit extreme and unrealistic for a design.
Please, can anyone verify with us whether or not the robot can extend higher than that amount or that the robot does not need to be 55 inches tall, plus more extension to reach the switches and the rung???
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Unread 01-15-2018, 03:23 PM
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Re: Height/Robot Extension Clarification

The robot must be less than 55 inches tall at the beginning of the match. After the match begins, the robot may extend to be as tall as you like.
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Unread 01-15-2018, 03:24 PM
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Re: Height/Robot Extension Clarification

There is no height limit after the match starts.

This has been answered before, so I suggest going through the official Q&A for any other questions.
https://frc-qa.firstinspires.org/
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Unread 01-15-2018, 04:52 PM
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Re: Height/Robot Extension Clarification

For a thought experiment, let's consider another rule:
To start the match, you must be in contact with the diamond plate. You also cannot launch a cube from this location. There's nothing in the rules that states you MAY leave the diamond plate.

In this case, you assume that it's allowed because there isn't a rule that states you cannot leave.

Treat the manual like this in all instances. If there isn't a rule that states you cannot do something, you can do it. If we had a manual of all the things you're allowed to do, it'd either be incredibly long or incredibly restricting. It's much better if we have a manual tell us what we're not allowed to do.
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Unread 01-16-2018, 12:20 AM
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Re: Height/Robot Extension Clarification

Please don't double-post. It's unnecessary.

Thank you.
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Unread 01-16-2018, 07:31 AM
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Re: Height/Robot Extension Clarification

Thank you very much for the help.
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Unread 01-16-2018, 07:57 AM
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Re: Height/Robot Extension Clarification

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffB View Post
For a thought experiment, let's consider another rule:
To start the match, you must be in contact with the diamond plate. You also cannot launch a cube from this location. There's nothing in the rules that states you MAY leave the diamond plate.

In this case, you assume that it's allowed because there isn't a rule that states you cannot leave.

Treat the manual like this in all instances. If there isn't a rule that states you cannot do something, you can do it. If we had a manual of all the things you're allowed to do, it'd either be incredibly long or incredibly restricting. It's much better if we have a manual tell us what we're not allowed to do.
I am guessing that they simply wanted to check that they did not just miss the rule since the manual is 155 pages long. It is easy to miss a rule and thus it is easy to get disqualified or penalized every match because they missed a rule.
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Unread 01-16-2018, 11:31 AM
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Re: Height/Robot Extension Clarification

Quote:
Originally Posted by adam5556 View Post
I am guessing that they simply wanted to check that they did not just miss the rule since the manual is 155 pages long. It is easy to miss a rule and thus it is easy to get disqualified or penalized every match because they missed a rule.
Easy to miss a rule, yes.

It's not easy to get penalized every match, if you pay attention to what the inspectors and/or Head Referee tell you (when you ask, in the case of the latter).

An inspector can tell you what is wrong with your robot from a rules standpoint so you can fix it.

When you are at the event, there's the Driver's meeting to ask questions of the Head Referee, and there's the Question Box for the same purpose. If you are at the event, get called for a penalty, and get to the box immediately, you may be able to get information on what the penalty was (key word, immediately--refs have short memories).
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Unread 01-16-2018, 12:31 PM
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Re: Height/Robot Extension Clarification

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricH View Post
Easy to miss a rule, yes.

It's not easy to get penalized every match, if you pay attention to what the inspectors and/or Head Referee tell you (when you ask, in the case of the latter).

An inspector can tell you what is wrong with your robot from a rules standpoint so you can fix it.

When you are at the event, there's the Driver's meeting to ask questions of the Head Referee, and there's the Question Box for the same purpose. If you are at the event, get called for a penalty, and get to the box immediately, you may be able to get information on what the penalty was (key word, immediately--refs have short memories).
To be fair, if their design required going beyond the legal limits, they'd either take the penalty every match or not be able to perform their strategy. That's something you can't wait until the drivers meeting to understand.

I'm curious. Every time I've called a foul, I've gone over to talk to the team after the match. Is that uncommon? Personally, I hate calling fouls. The best way to avoid this is to go teach teams why I did. That way, they can avoid it in future matches.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adam5556 View Post
I am guessing that they simply wanted to check that they did not just miss the rule since the manual is 155 pages long. It is easy to miss a rule and thus it is easy to get disqualified or penalized every match because they missed a rule.
That's a tad of an exaggeration. The rules portion isn't nearly that long. That can be shortened further by looking at rules that might apply (the list of ports used, for example, clearly aren't a part of this). It's possible. But, their tone also made it sound as if they'd searched quite a bit (just, not on CD or the Q&A). It's been a common theme this season. "I can't find this rule so how can I know it's ok?"
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Unread 01-16-2018, 03:43 PM
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Re: Height/Robot Extension Clarification

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffB View Post
I'm curious. Every time I've called a foul, I've gone over to talk to the team after the match. Is that uncommon? Personally, I hate calling fouls. The best way to avoid this is to go teach teams why I did. That way, they can avoid it in future matches.
Check what your training says. Also 10.6 in the Manual. Generally speaking that would be a head-ref interaction.

If it's the offseason, it's common. Practice matches, depending on the event, relatively common.
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