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Unread 03-13-2017, 11:37 AM
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District Points in IN - HELP!!

IndianaFIRST has 10 slots to the FIRST Championship, as well as 1 Chairman's Winner, 1 EI Winner, 1 Rookie Allstar, and 1 Original and Sustaining team.

With this info, how many slots from the rankings will go? Is it 6 or 7? 8? 10?

I come from a team in Michigan and there's so many slots, I never really thought about it, but moving to IndianaFIRST and needing to prepare for what's ahead, I was hoping someone could clear this up for me.

Thanks for all the help, in advance!
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Unread 03-13-2017, 11:47 AM
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Re: District Points in IN - HELP!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by beurwonderwall View Post
IndianaFIRST has 10 slots to the FIRST Championship, as well as 1 Chairman's Winner, 1 EI Winner, 1 Rookie Allstar, and 1 Original and Sustaining team.

With this info, how many slots from the rankings will go? Is it 6 or 7? 8? 10?

I come from a team in Michigan and there's so many slots, I never really thought about it, but moving to IndianaFIRST and needing to prepare for what's ahead, I was hoping someone could clear this up for me.

Thanks for all the help, in advance!
As a prequalified team, 45's ticket to St. Louis is out of a different pile. You can ignore them for the purposes of advancing on points.

Of the 10 slots, it'll go like this:

Chairman's: 1
EI: 1
Rookie All-Star: 1
Winning Alliance: 3-4
Anyone winning a regional: ????
Points: 3-4, minus however many teams win a regional.

(source on awards: Table 10-11, PDF)

If 45 gets Chairman's, EI, or is on the winning alliance, add 1 more team (the next one down the list) on points.
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Unread 03-13-2017, 12:05 PM
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Re: District Points in IN - HELP!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Billfred View Post
As a prequalified team, 45's ticket to St. Louis is out of a different pile. You can ignore them for the purposes of advancing on points.

Of the 10 slots, it'll go like this:

Chairman's: 1
EI: 1
Rookie All-Star: 1
Winning Alliance: 3-4
Anyone winning a regional: ????
Points: 3-4, minus however many teams win a regional.

(source on awards: Table 10-11, PDF)

If 45 gets Chairman's, EI, or is on the winning alliance, add 1 more team (the next one down the list) on points.
Good to know. So, lets say Chairmans winner is also on the winning alliance... Would that add one more to the list on points?

Thanks!
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Unread 03-13-2017, 12:56 PM
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Re: District Points in IN - HELP!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by beurwonderwall View Post
Good to know. So, lets say Chairmans winner is also on the winning alliance... Would that add one more to the list on points?

Thanks!
Yes so like said earlier, 45's slot doesn't count.

As it stands, here are how the 10 spots are allocated:

3- Winners (4 if a backup bot wins)
3- Awards (Engineering Inspiration, Chairmans, Rookie All Star)
4- The top teams based on district points who are not already qualified. For my sake, I'll call them wildcards (3 if a backup bot wins)

Just like at a regional, If a team double qualifies, it will generate 1 additional wildcard spot. The only likely scenarios this will happen is if a Winner wins one of the 3 awards, the rookie all star winner also wins EI, the Chairman's winner also wins IE, or if Team 45 wins a qualifying spot the "normal way".

With this said, a wild card slot can be filled before the state championship if an IN team wins a qualifying spot at a Regional.

Basically at state, 32 teams are competing for 10 spots.

For reference, in 2015, the last wildcard spot was filled with 181 district points with 10 spots to worlds (the same as 2017)
In 2016, the last wildcard spot was filled with 199 district points with 9 spots to worlds. The 10th spot if IN had 10 spots that year would have been team 71 with 179 district points.

With this said, aim for at least 200 points. 200 points won't guarantee you a spot to worlds but probably will if it follows the trend of the 10th spot for the last 2 years.

If you'd like to see the current district point standings, look here. Keep in mind that 13 of 48 teams have attended 2 events while the other 35 of 48 teams (including you) have their second event in week 4 at Perry Meridian. Also, keep in mind that District Champs is 3 times the amount of points of any other district event so a good state performance is a must.

If you'd like to find out all the ways to get district points at competitions, I'd be glad to go into even more detail about this if you'd like to in a PM. I find this very interesting (seeing as I love statistics in general) which is why I always look into great detail for this stuff.
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My FRC Recap so far...
2015 Regular Season (w/ 234) 1 District Chairman's (Indianapolis), 2 District Wins (Kokomo: 234, 135, 3865) (Purdue: 234, 1024, 2197),
1 DCMP Win (Indiana: 234, 1024, 292), and 1 Worlds (Archimedes: SF)
Offseason 2 Wins (CORI: 234, 2614, 3266) (CAGE: 234, 868, 2791?), IRI, and IndyRAGE

2016 Regular Season (w/ 234)
1 NC District (Guilford: QF), 2 IN Districts (Warren: QF) (Perry: QF), and 1 DCMP (Indiana: QF)
Offseason IRI, Boiler Bot Battle, CAGE, and IndyRAGE

2017 Regular Season (w/ 234) 2 District Wins (Tippecanoe: 234, 1018, 4926) (Perry: 1501, 234, 2197), 1 DCMP (Indiana: QF), and 1 Half-Worlds (Curie: QF)


Last edited by logank013 : 03-13-2017 at 01:00 PM.
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Unread 03-15-2017, 12:18 PM
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Re: District Points in IN - HELP!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by logank013 View Post
Yes so like said earlier, 45's slot doesn't count.
(...)
Just like at a regional, If a team double qualifies, it will generate 1 additional wildcard spot. (...) if Team 45 wins a qualifying spot the "normal way".
I would double check what the rules about a pre-qualified team are. If I remember correctly, last year in MAR when 341 was on the winning alliance that "burned" one of the district spots and could not be reallocated.

My understanding is that as long as a pre-qualified team (45) does not earn a spot via an auto-bid win (winning alliance, culture award) then they get skipped but otherwise their slot gets forfeited because only 4 spots (3 if there is a back-up bot) are available for teams to earn via points.
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Unread 03-16-2017, 11:11 PM
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Re: District Points in IN - HELP!!

In this vein, I have a question about the meanings of this table we have in the manual.

I don't understand what the "Max Ratio", "Min Ratio", and "District Selection" columns are supposed to mean, and I can't find an explanation. It seems like the numbers might make sense if "Max Ratio" might be renamed "Min" and "Min Ratio" to "Max", and removed the 18, 9, and 9, 6. Then, "District Selection" would be the amount within the max and min that the district has selected to send from that category.
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Unread 03-17-2017, 04:31 AM
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Re: District Points in IN - HELP!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by microbuns View Post
In this vein, I have a question about the meanings of this table we have in the manual.

I don't understand what the "Max Ratio", "Min Ratio", and "District Selection" columns are supposed to mean, and I can't find an explanation. It seems like the numbers might make sense if "Max Ratio" might be renamed "Min" and "Min Ratio" to "Max", and removed the 18, 9, and 9, 6. Then, "District Selection" would be the amount within the max and min that the district has selected to send from that category.
Yes the way things are worded is confusing since they talk about the max ratio which generates the minimum number of teams and the min ratio which generates the max number of teams.

What that means is that for example is that for chairman's the max ratio of other teams to chairman's teams is 18 to 1 or 1 chairman's for every 18 other slots. The min ratio is 9 to 1 so 1 chairman's team for every 9 other teams. For districts that attend Huston the numbers are based on the normalized slots.
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Unread 03-17-2017, 07:49 AM
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Re: District Points in IN - HELP!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jessi Kaestle View Post
I would double check what the rules about a pre-qualified team are. If I remember correctly, last year in MAR when 341 was on the winning alliance that "burned" one of the district spots and could not be reallocated.

My understanding is that as long as a pre-qualified team (45) does not earn a spot via an auto-bid win (winning alliance, culture award) then they get skipped but otherwise their slot gets forfeited because only 4 spots (3 if there is a back-up bot) are available for teams to earn via points.
That is what I was implying. If team 45 wins the state event, wins the state EI, or wins the state chairmans, they will generate a "next in" (or what I call wildcard to stay consistent with regionals) spot for the next highest team based on the district points.

Edit: Oh wait, I see what you are saying. So you think that if 45 wins one of the qualifying spots in Indiana, it will just burn up rather than getting reallocated to the next district point team? That may be true but that doesn't really make sense since they are prequalified to the championship... Burning up a district spot due to a district team winning a qualifying spot at a regional at least makes sense because they are trying to keep regionals and districts fair...

Edit 2: The following quote is take from the game manual section 10.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FRC Game Manual 2017 Section 10
If a District team earns a slot to the FIRST Championship within the season, but is not able to attend, the
top ranked team who has not yet been offered a slot is given the opportunity, and so on, until all slots are
filled. Slots for pre-qualified teams will not be backfilled.
So what exactly does backfilled mean? Is it saying that if a prequalified team wins a qualifying spot, that spot won't be refilled? Does that apply just for winning and the culture awards or does that also apply to the "next in" teams as well?

Edit 3: Based on last year in Indiana, 45 would have won a "next in" spot if they weren't already qualified to worlds. It looks like last year they did not take up a "next in" spot. Last year, Indiana had 9 spots leaving 3 spots for the winners, 3 spots for the 3 awards, and 3 spots for "next in" teams. Last year, Indiana sent 10 teams so it appears that 45 did not consume a "next in" spot from the Indiana District. With that said, I think that you are right that 45 would consume a spot if they win one of the 3 awards or win the event...
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My FRC Recap so far...
2015 Regular Season (w/ 234) 1 District Chairman's (Indianapolis), 2 District Wins (Kokomo: 234, 135, 3865) (Purdue: 234, 1024, 2197),
1 DCMP Win (Indiana: 234, 1024, 292), and 1 Worlds (Archimedes: SF)
Offseason 2 Wins (CORI: 234, 2614, 3266) (CAGE: 234, 868, 2791?), IRI, and IndyRAGE

2016 Regular Season (w/ 234)
1 NC District (Guilford: QF), 2 IN Districts (Warren: QF) (Perry: QF), and 1 DCMP (Indiana: QF)
Offseason IRI, Boiler Bot Battle, CAGE, and IndyRAGE

2017 Regular Season (w/ 234) 2 District Wins (Tippecanoe: 234, 1018, 4926) (Perry: 1501, 234, 2197), 1 DCMP (Indiana: QF), and 1 Half-Worlds (Curie: QF)


Last edited by logank013 : 03-17-2017 at 10:07 AM.
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Unread 03-20-2017, 02:58 PM
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Re: District Points in IN - HELP!!

Newest question:

I've been investigating Blue Alliance to see which Indy teams went to go play at Regionals, and it shows two teams going to St Louis, but I'm not sure how they qualified because neither attended a regional or holds an auto qualify slot.

Is it a glitch that it's showing Einstein on some teams or...?

Did they receive a waitlist slot?

I'm just wondering how this impacts the slots.
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---3 Blue Banners (2013 St Joseph Champions, 2016 Lansing Champions, and 2016 LSSU Chairmans, 6 Red Ribbons, 9 Awards, and 4 Years
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---1 Blue Banner (IN St Joseph Champion, 3 Awards, and 1 Year and COUNTING!
Head Coach of FTC Team 12014 (The Fire Wires) (2016-????)
---2 Event Wins (NorWestIn Champion and Bash on the Wabash Champion), 1 Time State Finalist, 1 Rookie Sensation Award, and 1 Year and COUNTING!


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My opinions are mine and mine only, and do not reflect the views of my team(s).
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Unread 03-20-2017, 04:11 PM
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Re: District Points in IN - HELP!!

They recently opened the Waitlist so they could have been invited that way. Waitlist spots do not affect the total number of spots given to a District. Assuming those teams did not win a Regional they should not affect the number that qualify.
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Unread 03-20-2017, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beurwonderwall View Post
Newest question:

I've been investigating Blue Alliance to see which Indy teams went to go play at Regionals, and it shows two teams going to St Louis, but I'm not sure how they qualified because neither attended a regional or holds an auto qualify slot.

Is it a glitch that it's showing Einstein on some teams or...?

Did they receive a waitlist slot?

I'm just wondering how this impacts the slots.


Yes, we received a waitlist spot. This does not subtract from IN's 10 spots. If a waitlist team were to get enough points to earn a champs spot by points, the next team with the highest number of points would get the point spot. I do not know what would happen if a waitlist team won the event or a culture change award.
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Unread 03-20-2017, 05:10 PM
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Re: District Points in IN - HELP!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zealii View Post
Yes, we received a waitlist spot. This does not subtract from IN's 10 spots. If a waitlist team were to get enough points to earn a champs spot by points, the next team with the highest number of points would get the point spot. I do not know what would happen if a waitlist team won the event or a culture change award.
I believe that if a waitlist team won state or a culture changing award then another points based slot opens up.
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Unread 03-20-2017, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peyton Yeung View Post
I believe that if a waitlist team won state or a culture changing award than another points based slot opens up.


That is what I would hope!
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Unread 03-21-2017, 10:51 PM
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Re: District Points in IN - HELP!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zealii View Post
Yes, we received a waitlist spot. This does not subtract from IN's 10 spots. If a waitlist team were to get enough points to earn a champs spot by points, the next team with the highest number of points would get the point spot. I do not know what would happen if a waitlist team won the event or a culture change award.
Thank you! Have a blast at Worlds! I hope we'll get to see you there!
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---3 Blue Banners (2013 St Joseph Champions, 2016 Lansing Champions, and 2016 LSSU Chairmans, 6 Red Ribbons, 9 Awards, and 4 Years
Marketing/Chairman's Mentor and Drive Coach for FRC Team 5484 (Career Academy Robotics - Memento Vitam) (2017-????)
---1 Blue Banner (IN St Joseph Champion, 3 Awards, and 1 Year and COUNTING!
Head Coach of FTC Team 12014 (The Fire Wires) (2016-????)
---2 Event Wins (NorWestIn Champion and Bash on the Wabash Champion), 1 Time State Finalist, 1 Rookie Sensation Award, and 1 Year and COUNTING!


Starting the robot revolution at Saint Mary's College and The University of Notre Dame. Go Belles and go Irish!
My opinions are mine and mine only, and do not reflect the views of my team(s).
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