OCCRA
Go to Post If only CD had a "like" button. - BrendanB [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > Technical > Technical Discussion
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Closed Thread
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-06-2003, 10:09 PM
Kai Zhao Kai Zhao is offline
Registered User
#0686 (Bovine Intervention)
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Frederick, MD
Posts: 28
Kai Zhao is on a distinguished road
Send a message via AIM to Kai Zhao
Auxilliary Basic Stamp Chip

I know this was kind of discussed last year but I there weren't any threads with what I wanted.

With the "custom electronics," it is possible to buy a Basic Stamp Chip to use for dedicated control use. But how would one transfer information from the Stamp to the IFI Control System (or vice versa, if possible)?

I *hope* that it is possible to move a byte of information from the I/O pins to the Control System's analog in port (using legal parts). If that is not possible, moving information using the digital in ports.

The data that I want to transfer is stuff like sensor readouts that I would like the Stamp to keep track of information, for example, box distance calculated by using two sensors.

-Kai Zhao
  #2   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-07-2003, 01:48 PM
Jack's Avatar
Jack Jack is offline
FIRST Scouting Network
AKA: Andrew Schenk
FRC #0201 (The FEDS)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Rochester Hills
Posts: 643
Jack is a jewel in the roughJack is a jewel in the roughJack is a jewel in the rough
Send a message via AIM to Jack
There might be a way, but i'm not 100% sure. Go ahead as ask someone in programming
__________________
Team 201 - 2003 Great Lakes Semifinalists & 2003 Archimedes Division Finalists :|: Webmaster of www.feds201.com -> FBI Scouting
Winner of The 2003 ChiefDelphi Web Award for: User That Started The Most Non Chit Chat Threads
Winner of: 2003 FIRST Ventures with 5451.68 End Points

All about me: http://knehcsa.vze.com
**Check out the New FIRST Scouting Network**
  #3   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-07-2003, 02:55 PM
Eric Reed Eric Reed is offline
I am somebody now!
#0481 (De Anza Robotics Team)
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Richmond, CA
Posts: 103
Eric Reed will become famous soon enoughEric Reed will become famous soon enough
Using the analog ports wouldn't be reliable if you want to transmit the exact byte. I think you should be able to use the digital in for this, however.
  #4   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-07-2003, 03:07 PM
rbayer's Avatar Unsung FIRST Hero
rbayer rbayer is offline
Blood, Sweat, and Code
no team (Teamless Orphan)
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Minnetonka, MN
Posts: 1,087
rbayer is a glorious beacon of lightrbayer is a glorious beacon of lightrbayer is a glorious beacon of lightrbayer is a glorious beacon of lightrbayer is a glorious beacon of light
Send a message via AIM to rbayer
You can get data in to the RC fairly easily via the digital inputs, but getting data out of the RC would require that your custom box reads either a PWM or eight relays. Unfortunately, as many threads here have concluded, the IFI control system's PWM is not the same as the STAMP PWM.

Any electrical people know if this is possible?
__________________
New C-based RoboEmu2 (code simulator) available at: http://www.robbayer.com/software.php
  #5   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-07-2003, 03:48 PM
nwagers nwagers is offline
Registered User
#0240 (Mach Vee)
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Monroe, MI
Posts: 88
nwagers is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via AIM to nwagers Send a message via Yahoo to nwagers
where there's a signal, there's a way...

i think if you used the PWM functions on the outside stamp you could fairly accurately output analog data to the RC... I'll add this to my list of things to try. If you get it to work please share the details here on the forums.
  #6   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-07-2003, 06:36 PM
Kai Zhao Kai Zhao is offline
Registered User
#0686 (Bovine Intervention)
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Frederick, MD
Posts: 28
Kai Zhao is on a distinguished road
Send a message via AIM to Kai Zhao
My main goal is to get an approximate value out of the Auxilliary Stamp Chip. Perhaps if one was truely desperate, they could use the tether/debug talk to the Stamp, but that's insane. However, that data I want to send is more "parallel" and I don't want to tie up tons of digital inputs.

-Kai Zhao
  #7   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-07-2003, 07:11 PM
rbayer's Avatar Unsung FIRST Hero
rbayer rbayer is offline
Blood, Sweat, and Code
no team (Teamless Orphan)
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Minnetonka, MN
Posts: 1,087
rbayer is a glorious beacon of lightrbayer is a glorious beacon of lightrbayer is a glorious beacon of lightrbayer is a glorious beacon of lightrbayer is a glorious beacon of light
Send a message via AIM to rbayer
Re: where there's a signal, there's a way...

Quote:
Originally posted by nwagers
i think if you used the PWM functions on the outside stamp you could fairly accurately output analog data to the RC... I'll add this to my list of things to try. If you get it to work please share the details here on the forums.
The RC's PWM is not the same as the Stamp's PWM, so I'm guessing it isn't going to work. Furthermore, the stamp has no "PWM in" type function.

Quote:
]Originally posted by Kai Zhao
My main goal is to get an approximate value out of the Auxilliary Stamp Chip. Perhaps if one was truely desperate, they could use the tether/debug talk to the Stamp, but that's insane. However, that data I want to send is more "parallel" and I don't want to tie up tons of digital inputs.
Doing it throught the program port is actually not that insane. This is how RoboCon works, and it really isn't that hard. Plus, the Stamp has native support for RS-232, so you wouldn't even need any addition electronics. Unfortunately, it is not legal to exchange data in any way other than with the digital/analog inputs on the RC. This also rules out the idea of doing it with PWMs.

May I ask what advantage this would have, aside from letting you input a few number of sensors?
__________________
New C-based RoboEmu2 (code simulator) available at: http://www.robbayer.com/software.php
  #8   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-07-2003, 08:34 PM
Morgan Jones Morgan Jones is offline
Registered User
no team
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Fairport, NY
Posts: 29
Morgan Jones is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Re: where there's a signal, there's a way...

Quote:
Originally posted by rbayer
Unfortunately, it is not legal to exchange data in any way other than with the digital/analog inputs on the RC. This also rules out the idea of doing it with PWMs.
This is not quite accurate. The outputs of the custom circuit can only be connected to the digital/analog inputs on the RC. The circuit may receive input from a PWM out.

From rule C29:

Inputs to the circuits may be connected to the following sources:
Circuit breaker outputs.
Speed Controller or Relay module outputs.
PWM or Relay outputs on Robot Controller.
Switches, Potentiometers, the Yaw Rate Sensor, Optical Sensors, Motors and
other additional electronics allowed in the restricted parts list.
__________________
Morgan Jones
Team 578: Fairport High School/Gleason Works
  #9   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-07-2003, 08:51 PM
Eric Eric is offline
Registered User
#0030 (Fury)
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Lincroft, NJ
Posts: 1
Eric is an unknown quantity at this point
OK, first of all... I'm pretty sure you're not allowed to be connected to the program port during a match.

Second (and yeah, I am thinking about doing something like this), I'm pretty sure it can be done, and easily. Here's how I would do it:

For inputs to the auxiliary Stamp, feed it with either PWM or relay outputs from the RC. If you want to use PWM outputs, just make them operate digitally, ie. give it either 0 or 255. Then just read the digital data from off the pins on the aux Stamp. You could use one output as a clock to send more data.

To output from the Stamp to the RC, I would say just connect the IO pins of the Stamp to the digital input on the RC. You might have problems with using analog inputs, because I'm not sure how they sample and PWM isn't really a variable analog voltage. You could use a clock line here, too.

If you need more pins on the Stamp, you can try the 40 pin model.

Just a thought, still has a lot of stuff to be worked out.

Eric (an electronics freak)
  #10   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-07-2003, 09:21 PM
Dave Flowerday Dave Flowerday is offline
Software Engineer
VRC #0111 (Wildstang)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Rookie Year: 1995
Location: North Barrington, IL
Posts: 1,367
Dave Flowerday has a reputation beyond reputeDave Flowerday has a reputation beyond reputeDave Flowerday has a reputation beyond reputeDave Flowerday has a reputation beyond reputeDave Flowerday has a reputation beyond reputeDave Flowerday has a reputation beyond reputeDave Flowerday has a reputation beyond reputeDave Flowerday has a reputation beyond reputeDave Flowerday has a reputation beyond reputeDave Flowerday has a reputation beyond reputeDave Flowerday has a reputation beyond repute
You guys are right on track. I'll throw in some stuff that might help.

1. Remember that each relay output has 2 bits - so to transfer an 8 bit value from one processor to the other you only need 4 relay outputs.

2. If you read the digital inputs while the other processor is changing them, you can read a corrupted byte. You'll need to figure out some way to ensure that the data that came across the digital ins is valid.

3. I think that the PWM outs from the RC never go full DC. Even at 0 or 255 they're still pulsing, I believe. I'll try to remember to check this tomorrow on the scope, unless someone else can confirm this.

4. Finally, if you have any engineers on your team who have some experience with it, I'd highly recommend trying to use some other processor than the stamp. If you get a HC08 or a PIC you'll get a processor that is orders of magnitude faster, cheaper, and not that much more difficult to program.

Doing a microcontroller based custom circuit is a lot of work but it's fun and it's a great learning experience. We had a good time building ours last year and we're well on our way to having a plan for this year's.
Closed Thread


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Impending BASIC Stamp Editor Beta 2 release Greg Ross Programming 9 09-19-2003 06:05 AM
I Need Help with downloading Basic Stamp Program archiver General Forum 2 06-23-2002 09:57 PM
Is anyone using the BASIC Stamp Preprocessor? Greg Ross Programming 4 02-12-2002 12:24 PM
Question about Basic Stamp miketwalker Programming 3 01-14-2002 01:10 PM
Have a question about the Basic Stamp Chip Boards wes16zeus Programming 3 12-06-2001 08:25 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:44 AM.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi