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Unread 04-13-2012, 08:29 AM
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Re: New District Events for 2013?

Also, I spoke with Mark Breadner (CMP WFA Winner and Regional Director for FIRST Robotics Canada) at the Montreal Regional briefly about Canada moving to a district system, and was told that its at the region's discretion, and likely coming soon but likely not for 2013.

I would expect a Canadian district system for the 2014 or 2015 season.

FIRST has been trying to figure out how to restructure things to solve the overcrowding CMP issue. Bottom line is one of two things. We either have to qualify less teams to CMP, or we have to increase capacity at CMP. This year, based on my count of the events, if every team that earned a slot went, there would be only about 25 slots (based on a capacity of 360) left for open registration. At the rate we're adding regionals now, that number is shrinking fast. I think there is probably no more room with whatever new regionals start for 2013. HQ has to do something. If you look at a graph of the growth rate, we're growing faster than ever.

Moving the entire program (or at least most of it, only leaving 'traditional' regionals where there's not enough density to pull off a district model) to a district model could be done in such a way to control how many go to CMP, or it could be used to introduce a split CMP system or something, where regions in the east qualify to a FRC East Championship and regions in the west qualify to a FRC West Championship, and then those qualify to CMP.
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Unread 04-13-2012, 09:01 AM
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Re: New District Events for 2013?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan Streeter View Post
FiNE:
MA: 57
CT: 41
NH: 30
ME: 10
RI: 5
VT: 3
Total: 146 Teams
Area: 72,000 sq. mi.
Density: .00203 Teams/sq. mi.

FiM:
MI: 190
Area: 97,000 sq. mi.
Density: .00196
Just for comparison (and because I was interested to know):

Capital Region
VA: 67 Teams
MD: 36 Teams
DC: 15 Teams
Total Teams: 118
Area: 55,250 sq. mi.
Density: 0.0021 teams/sq. mi.
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Unread 04-13-2012, 11:47 AM
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Re: New District Events for 2013?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan Streeter View Post
FiNE:
MA: 57
CT: 41
NH: 30
ME: 10
RI: 5
VT: 3
Total: 146 Teams
Area: 72,000 sq. mi.
Density: .00203 Teams/sq. mi.

FiM:
MI: 190
Area: 97,000 sq. mi.
Density: .00196
Quote:
Originally Posted by nukemknight View Post
Just for comparison (and because I was interested to know):

Capital Region
VA: 67 Teams
MD: 36 Teams
DC: 15 Teams
Total Teams: 118
Area: 55,250 sq. mi.
Density: 0.0021 teams/sq. mi.

Just for numbers sake...

In the UP there's only 11 teams leaving 179 in the LP and I calculated the area of just the LP to be 54,000 sq. mi. making the density of the lower half 0.0033 teams/sq. mi.
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Unread 04-13-2012, 06:59 PM
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Re: New District Events for 2013?

There has been a volunteer here at the MAR championships from Minnesota (!!!!) observing and asking teams their opinion on the district system. I have a feeling we're going to start seeing announcements/discussion in various regions about moving to the district model once the off season starts. Whether any will happen in 2013 is beyond my knowledge but I'm sure we will see a few in 2014.
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Unread 04-13-2012, 08:12 PM
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Re: New District Events for 2013?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery View Post
Minnesota, Texas, and Ontario/Eastern Canada seem like potential areas for the district model, at least from an outside perspective.

I'd feel sorry for Wisconsin teams if Minnesota goes district, though. They'd be wedged between two district systems, and lose a lot of nearby regional options.
Personally, I'd like Minnesota, Wisconsin, and the UP all together. Downstate is so far away by comparison.
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Unread 04-13-2012, 08:21 PM
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Re: New District Events for 2013?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christopher149 View Post
Personally, I'd like Minnesota, Wisconsin, and the UP all together. Downstate is so far away by comparison.
What if there was an event in the UP?
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Unread 04-13-2012, 08:29 PM
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Re: New District Events for 2013?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryVoshol View Post
What if there was an event in the UP?
Since there are only 11 teams in the UP, we need teams from somewhere else to make an event worthwhile. I've been thinking that a Midwest district could attract more teams than downstate because of the shape of Michigan. A local event plus a WI or MN event would do wonders for travel costs. (0-2 h and 4-6 h instead of 7-8h and 9-10h for TC and West Michigan [from Houghton])

Last edited by Christopher149 : 04-13-2012 at 08:34 PM. Reason: edit local travel time in case it happened at Marquette
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Unread 04-14-2012, 05:38 PM
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Re: New District Events for 2013?

With Ca. approaching 200 FRC teams next year, we are running out of regionals. As it stands now, we have 5 regionals. Ca. would make the most sense of going to a Mi. style of events. Rumor has it that it is still a few years away. There is talk of adding one more regional, somewhere in the state. Maybe adding one more in L.A. and making it dual events like Seattle had this year.
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Unread 04-14-2012, 06:30 PM
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Re: New District Events for 2013?

Man, I was thinking people would be knee deep in CMP talk instead of already jumping onto this ship. I need to put a rush on the paper I have been working on theorizing a post-2013 FIRST world.

I can foresee that after the FRC CMP contract in St. Louis runs out in 2013, there will be a big shake up in the way a lot of teams play FRC. I was talking to many members of the regional planning board in VA to see if they were considering it. Judging by FiM and MAR timelines the talks came 2 years before the implementation, so I'm calling 2014. In fact, some were calling out towns where the events would be held in addition to the Capital Championship ending at VCU (how can it NOT?).

It's not team dense in square miles, but the majority of teams are right on or around I-95 metro areas, which puts them minutes to a couple hours away from any regional in existence. I drove across Michigan this weekend... that place is HUGE, but the team concentration is obviously Greater Oakland.

I can see Texas and California and north midwest states being apprehensive because of the distances one must travel... I would hope FIRST would put in any sort of plan in the style of what I am working on. A comprehensive, controlled shifting to the district system across the contiguous US, with provisions for international/HI/AK teams.
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Unread 04-14-2012, 07:19 PM
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Re: New District Events for 2013?

Quote:
Originally Posted by calicogang View Post
With Ca. approaching 200 FRC teams next year, we are running out of regionals. As it stands now, we have 5 regionals. Ca. would make the most sense of going to a Mi. style of events. Rumor has it that it is still a few years away. There is talk of adding one more regional, somewhere in the state. Maybe adding one more in L.A. and making it dual events like Seattle had this year.
I wouldn't be surprised if they did that, but they are doing this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by R.C. View Post
There is one being planned in the riverside area.

-RC
I personally would love to see one more Norther California Regional. I smaller one, just to alleviate some of the stress off of SVR and SAC, I feel like CVR did a good job at that, but another 30-40 team regional would be nice. It would be even better if it were near an airport, because then it would be a draw to some international and out of state teams. Then california could play host to the First ever FRC Triple Crown. If you win all three regional competitions you win the triple crown. Just a thought.

Another idea, although far-fetched, would be to have two CA districts, One North and One South. The State Championship could be a two fielder event North on one field and South on another and then the winners of each field have to face one another so it would be an ultimate North vs. South Battle. That would be crazy!!
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Unread 04-14-2012, 07:39 PM
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Re: New District Events for 2013?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinGoneNuts View Post
Another idea, although far-fetched, would be to have two CA districts, One North and One South. The State Championship could be a two fielder event North on one field and South on another and then the winners of each field have to face one another so it would be an ultimate North vs. South Battle. That would be crazy!!
My Michigan bias may be showing, but if this happens all of Michigan will have a riot. Michigan and California have virtually the same number of teams (within 10 of each other I believe), so if California is turned into two regions there have to be some serious changes in Michigan as well. I realize geography is at work in your idea, but you have to look at it this way: 2 regions means (theoretically) twice as many teams going to St. Louis (or wherever the Championship is), and I don't think it would be fair to send say 30 out of 190 California teams there and only 18 out of 180 (those numbers are just guesses) Michigan teams.

I guess this is an issue that overlaps a lot of this talk of switching to district systems. How do we keep the number of teams going from each region "fair?" I know right now its the former number of regionals that area had, but that won't work much longer for MI. We have over 180 teams and we get the equivalent of 3 regionals (18 teams sent, I believe). California has 5 so theoretically if it goes to districts they will send 30 teams if my math is correct.

I don't know, just some thoughts. I apologize if I'm misunderstanding anything.
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Unread 04-14-2012, 07:50 PM
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Re: New District Events for 2013?

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Originally Posted by P.J. View Post
My Michigan bias may be showing, but if this happens all of Michigan will have a riot. Michigan and California have virtually the same number of teams (within 10 of each other I believe), so if California is turned into two regions there have to be some serious changes in Michigan as well. I realize geography is at work in your idea, but you have to look at it this way: 2 regions means (theoretically) twice as many teams going to St. Louis (or wherever the Championship is), and I don't think it would be fair to send say 30 out of 190 California teams there and only 18 out of 180 (those numbers are just guesses) Michigan teams.

I guess this is an issue that overlaps a lot of this talk of switching to district systems. How do we keep the number of teams going from each region "fair?" I know right now its the former number of regionals that area had, but that won't work much longer for MI. We have over 180 teams and we get the equivalent of 3 regionals (18 teams sent, I believe). California has 5 so theoretically if it goes to districts they will send 30 teams if my math is correct.

I don't know, just some thoughts. I apologize if I'm misunderstanding anything.
Haha I can see how that would upset a lot of michigan teams. I was just thinking geographically. My idea was that it would still be one championship, just divided up better. The same number of teams would qualify for champs at a CSC. The extra battle of North vs. South would really just be for the title of California State Champions. Both alliances would qualify, and then a predetermined number of teams on both sides would qualify for the FIRST CHMP. Like I said, It's completely far-fetched, but just a fun idea
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Unread 04-14-2012, 08:06 PM
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Re: New District Events for 2013?

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Haha I can see how that would upset a lot of michigan teams. I was just thinking geographically. My idea was that it would still be one championship, just divided up better. The same number of teams would qualify for champs at a CSC. The extra battle of North vs. South would really just be for the title of California State Champions. Both alliances would qualify, and then a predetermined number of teams on both sides would qualify for the FIRST CHMP. Like I said, It's completely far-fetched, but just a fun idea
This is very disadvantageous for SoCal teams from a competitive standpoint.
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Unread 04-14-2012, 08:08 PM
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Re: New District Events for 2013?

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This is very disadvantageous for SoCal teams from a competitive standpoint.
I know. It's just a fun idea. It would be a very cool off season event if anything.
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Unread 04-14-2012, 09:04 PM
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Re: New District Events for 2013?

Also, as much as people outside of the professional world live in an alternate reality where everyone goes to 7 competitions in one season, it's not really plausible for the vast majority of people. The district system allows teams to miss less work days than a 3-day regional. You can cap it at four, MAYBE five events provided people aren't missing a week dependent on a CMP appearance and district dates.

1676 has gone to 4 events and will go to a fifth this competition season assuming they go to CMP). Both districts were Saturday/Sunday, NYC was Friday-Sunday, MAR was Thursday-Saturday, and CMP is Wednesday-Sunday (travel).

They missed 6 days over 5 events. Meanwhile, a two or three regional team is going to be missing more days if they go to CMP.

It's one of many factors we/FIRSTHQ must consider in all of this. There can't be any Superultraregionals that put teams into CMP or state divisions that qualify you for a state CMP.

This stuff is hard.
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