OCCRA
Go to Post Cut out the ridiculous vitriol. It's tiresome. Be productive. - Lil' Lavery [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > FIRST > General Forum
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 14 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-15-2012, 04:38 PM
Bruceb's Avatar
Bruceb Bruceb is offline
Registered User
FRC #0706 (Cyberhawks)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Merton, wi
Posts: 650
Bruceb is a splendid one to beholdBruceb is a splendid one to beholdBruceb is a splendid one to beholdBruceb is a splendid one to beholdBruceb is a splendid one to beholdBruceb is a splendid one to beholdBruceb is a splendid one to behold
FIRST is really looking into the Einstein problems

Here is an e-mail I just got from FIRST
Dear FRC Teams,

Please allow me to update you on our examination of the Championship final rounds.

As part of the examination, FIRST will evaluate the field and all robots that were on Einstein as a complete system—a system as comparable as possible to what existed at Championship. We have received and reassembled the Einstein field equipment at headquarters in Manchester, and we are in the process of retesting its functionality. In addition, we are asking each of the twelve teams that competed on Einstein to (1) allow FIRST to ship their robot to Manchester, (2) provide an adult representative to be present for testing, and (3) provide detailed systems information, including driver station logs and robot code. Each of the teams has acted with the utmost grace and professionalism, and for that we are truly grateful.

We also recognize that many of you have important information to share about your experiences this year. Thank you to those who have passed along such information in response to my April 29th e-mail. To make that process easier, we have set up an e-mail for you to share your experiences and expertise: 2012FRCfeedback@usfirst.org. Please know that while all of your feedback will be reviewed and considered, FIRST will not be able to respond to every e-mail.

We are also investigating the issues on Einstein with independent, outside experts as well as respected leaders in the FIRST community. We remain steadfastly committed to understanding the root causes of the issues and resolving them. I will continue to report our process, progress and eventually the findings of the examination.

Sincerely,

Jon
__________________
Mentor Team 706 The CyberHawks
2010 Wisconsin Regional Rockwell Automation Innovation in Control Award
2010 Wisconsin Regional Finalist
2013 Buckeye Regional Finalist
2014 Superior Regional Industrial Design Award
2014 Superior Regional Finalist
2014 Wisconsin Regional Finalist
2014 Wisconsin Motorola Quality Award
2015 Wisconsin Regional Motorola Quality Award
2015 Queen City Creativity Award
2016 Buckeye Regional Finalist
2016 Wisconsin Regional Finalist
2016 Wisconsin Regional Industrial Safety Award
2016 Wisconsin Regional Excellence in Engineering Award

https://www.youtube.com/user/Cyberhawks706
Reply With Quote
  #2   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-15-2012, 04:45 PM
R.C.'s Avatar
R.C. R.C. is online now
2017... Oooh Kill em, Swerve!
AKA: Owner, WestCoast Products
FRC #1323 (MadTown Robotics)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Madera, CA
Posts: 2,232
R.C. has a reputation beyond reputeR.C. has a reputation beyond reputeR.C. has a reputation beyond reputeR.C. has a reputation beyond reputeR.C. has a reputation beyond reputeR.C. has a reputation beyond reputeR.C. has a reputation beyond reputeR.C. has a reputation beyond reputeR.C. has a reputation beyond reputeR.C. has a reputation beyond reputeR.C. has a reputation beyond repute
Re: FIRST is realy looking into the Einstein problems

Awesome,

Great step forward!

-RC
__________________
R.C.
Owner, WestCoast Products || Twitter
MadTown Robotics Team 1323
Reply With Quote
  #3   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-15-2012, 04:50 PM
Chris is me's Avatar
Chris is me Chris is me is offline
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
AKA: Pinecone
FRC #3929 (Atomic Dragons); fmr. FRC #228 (GUS) & FRC #2791 (Shaker)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 8,306
Chris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond repute
Re: FIRST is realy looking into the Einstein problems

Whoa. This is fantastic. They're even acknowledging, potentially, the issues outside of Einstein field by soliciting input from teams. What a great step forward.
__________________
Mentor: 3929 (2018-?)
Mentor / Drive Coach: 228 (2016-2017) - 2016 RIDE Winner (with 1058, 6153)
Consultant Person: 2170 (2017)
College Mentor: 2791 (2010-2015) Build Photos - 2013 WPI Regional Finalists (with 20, 3182), 2012 BAE Finalists (with 1519, 885)
Student: 1714 (2009) - 2009 MN 10K Lakes Regional Winners (with 2826, 2470)
Reply With Quote
  #4   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-15-2012, 04:51 PM
Jon Stratis's Avatar
Jon Stratis Jon Stratis is offline
Mentor, LRI, MN RPC
FRC #2177 (The Robettes)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 4,405
Jon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond repute
Re: FIRST is realy looking into the Einstein problems

The lengths their going to get this figured out is certainly impressive. I really feel for the difficulty of their job here... It's quite possible they get the robots on the field and run all day and have no issues. What if the problem was a loose wire that's now tight since the field has been disassembled and reassembled? What if it was having thousands of cell phones in the arena next to the field? What if it was some specific environmental problem in the dome that isn't present now? Hopefully bringing back those same teams helps them reproduce the issue reliably!
Reply With Quote
  #5   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-15-2012, 04:58 PM
IKE's Avatar
IKE IKE is offline
Not so Custom User Title
AKA: Isaac Rife
no team (N/A)
Team Role: Mechanical
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,222
IKE has a reputation beyond reputeIKE has a reputation beyond reputeIKE has a reputation beyond reputeIKE has a reputation beyond reputeIKE has a reputation beyond reputeIKE has a reputation beyond reputeIKE has a reputation beyond reputeIKE has a reputation beyond reputeIKE has a reputation beyond reputeIKE has a reputation beyond reputeIKE has a reputation beyond repute
Re: FIRST is realy looking into the Einstein problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Stratis View Post
The lengths their going to get this figured out is certainly impressive. I really feel for the difficulty of their job here... It's quite possible they get the robots on the field and run all day and have no issues. What if the problem was a loose wire that's now tight since the field has been disassembled and reassembled? What if it was having thousands of cell phones in the arena next to the field? What if it was some specific environmental problem in the dome that isn't present now? Hopefully bringing back those same teams helps them reproduce the issue reliably!
Remember, this is an effort (a huge effort) to either find a solution, or remove a lot of "what-ifs".
I am really impressed by the efforts from all.
Reply With Quote
  #6   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-15-2012, 05:05 PM
Steven Donow Steven Donow is offline
Registered User
AKA: Scooby
no team
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Rookie Year: 2009
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 1,335
Steven Donow has a reputation beyond reputeSteven Donow has a reputation beyond reputeSteven Donow has a reputation beyond reputeSteven Donow has a reputation beyond reputeSteven Donow has a reputation beyond reputeSteven Donow has a reputation beyond reputeSteven Donow has a reputation beyond reputeSteven Donow has a reputation beyond reputeSteven Donow has a reputation beyond reputeSteven Donow has a reputation beyond reputeSteven Donow has a reputation beyond repute
Thumbs up Re: FIRST is realy looking into the Einstein problems

Awesome job FIRST! I never had a doubt in my mind that FIRST would go to such great measures to solve this problem.
Reply With Quote
  #7   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-15-2012, 05:23 PM
CalTran's Avatar
CalTran CalTran is online now
MST Rolla Senior
FRC #2410 (BV CAPS Metal Mustang Robotics)
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Rookie Year: 2010
Location: Overland Park, Kansas
Posts: 2,702
CalTran has a reputation beyond reputeCalTran has a reputation beyond reputeCalTran has a reputation beyond reputeCalTran has a reputation beyond reputeCalTran has a reputation beyond reputeCalTran has a reputation beyond reputeCalTran has a reputation beyond reputeCalTran has a reputation beyond reputeCalTran has a reputation beyond reputeCalTran has a reputation beyond reputeCalTran has a reputation beyond repute
Re: FIRST is realy looking into the Einstein problems

Is there a "like thread" button somewhere?
__________________
Team 2410 thinks KISSing is amazing! Keep It Super Safe!
  • "You know you've been in robotics too long when you start talking to your tools." "Well, you've been in robotics CLEARLY too long when they start talking back"
  • Theory is when you know everything but nothing works. Practice is when everything works but you don't know why. On our team, theory and practice comes together - nothing works and nobody knows why.
MMR 2410 Student (2010 - 2013) | MMR 2410 Mentor (2013 - Present)
FTC Game Announcer / MC (2014 - Present) | FRC MC (2015 - Present) | FRC Referee (2016) | FTC Referee (2017) | VEX IQ MC (2017) | FRC A/V (2017)
Academic Student (Forever)
Reply With Quote
  #8   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-15-2012, 05:26 PM
normpear2 normpear2 is offline
Team Programming/Electrical Co-Lead
FRC #2603 (Highland FIRST Robotics Team #2603)
Team Role: Programmer
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Rookie Year: 2011
Location: Medina, Ohio
Posts: 14
normpear2 is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via AIM to normpear2 Send a message via MSN to normpear2 Send a message via Yahoo to normpear2
Re: FIRST is realy looking into the Einstein problems

Is it possible if we can get a list of what regionals, if any, the Einstein Field was used at?
Reply With Quote
  #9   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-15-2012, 05:27 PM
IndySam's Avatar
IndySam IndySam is offline
Registered User
FRC #0829 (Digital Goats)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Indy
Posts: 3,439
IndySam has a reputation beyond reputeIndySam has a reputation beyond reputeIndySam has a reputation beyond reputeIndySam has a reputation beyond reputeIndySam has a reputation beyond reputeIndySam has a reputation beyond reputeIndySam has a reputation beyond reputeIndySam has a reputation beyond reputeIndySam has a reputation beyond reputeIndySam has a reputation beyond reputeIndySam has a reputation beyond repute
Re: FIRST is realy looking into the Einstein problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by normpear2 View Post
Is it possible if we can get a list of what regionals, if any, the Einstein Field was used at?
I wasn't used at any regional. It was kept in reserve in Memphis for emergency purposes.
__________________
"Champions are champions not because they do anything extraordinary but because they do the ordinary things better than anyone else." —Chuck Knoll


Reply With Quote
  #10   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-15-2012, 05:28 PM
Grim Tuesday's Avatar
Grim Tuesday Grim Tuesday is offline
Registered User
AKA: Simon Bohn
FRC #0639 (Code Red)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Rookie Year: 2010
Location: Baltimore MD (JHU)
Posts: 1,617
Grim Tuesday has a reputation beyond reputeGrim Tuesday has a reputation beyond reputeGrim Tuesday has a reputation beyond reputeGrim Tuesday has a reputation beyond reputeGrim Tuesday has a reputation beyond reputeGrim Tuesday has a reputation beyond reputeGrim Tuesday has a reputation beyond reputeGrim Tuesday has a reputation beyond reputeGrim Tuesday has a reputation beyond reputeGrim Tuesday has a reputation beyond reputeGrim Tuesday has a reputation beyond repute
Re: FIRST is realy looking into the Einstein problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by normpear2 View Post
Is it possible if we can get a list of what regionals, if any, the Einstein Field was used at?
Einstein Field was never used at a regional. It spent the season stored in Tennessee, waiting for the catastrophic failure of another field, to replace it if need be.
Reply With Quote
  #11   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-15-2012, 05:29 PM
CalTran's Avatar
CalTran CalTran is online now
MST Rolla Senior
FRC #2410 (BV CAPS Metal Mustang Robotics)
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Rookie Year: 2010
Location: Overland Park, Kansas
Posts: 2,702
CalTran has a reputation beyond reputeCalTran has a reputation beyond reputeCalTran has a reputation beyond reputeCalTran has a reputation beyond reputeCalTran has a reputation beyond reputeCalTran has a reputation beyond reputeCalTran has a reputation beyond reputeCalTran has a reputation beyond reputeCalTran has a reputation beyond reputeCalTran has a reputation beyond reputeCalTran has a reputation beyond repute
Re: FIRST is realy looking into the Einstein problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grim Tuesday View Post
Einstein Field was never used at a regional. It spent the season stored in Tennessee, waiting for the catastrophic failure of another field, to replace it if need be.
Ironic, all things considered.
__________________
Team 2410 thinks KISSing is amazing! Keep It Super Safe!
  • "You know you've been in robotics too long when you start talking to your tools." "Well, you've been in robotics CLEARLY too long when they start talking back"
  • Theory is when you know everything but nothing works. Practice is when everything works but you don't know why. On our team, theory and practice comes together - nothing works and nobody knows why.
MMR 2410 Student (2010 - 2013) | MMR 2410 Mentor (2013 - Present)
FTC Game Announcer / MC (2014 - Present) | FRC MC (2015 - Present) | FRC Referee (2016) | FTC Referee (2017) | VEX IQ MC (2017) | FRC A/V (2017)
Academic Student (Forever)
Reply With Quote
  #12   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-15-2012, 05:32 PM
normpear2 normpear2 is offline
Team Programming/Electrical Co-Lead
FRC #2603 (Highland FIRST Robotics Team #2603)
Team Role: Programmer
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Rookie Year: 2011
Location: Medina, Ohio
Posts: 14
normpear2 is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via AIM to normpear2 Send a message via MSN to normpear2 Send a message via Yahoo to normpear2
Re: FIRST is realy looking into the Einstein problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grim Tuesday View Post
Einstein Field was never used at a regional. It spent the season stored in Tennessee, waiting for the catastrophic failure of another field, to replace it if need be.
That actually could explain why this happened.


Lack of being tested in competition conditions. There is a reasons most products are heavily tested before being used.
Reply With Quote
  #13   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-15-2012, 05:36 PM
Ziv Ziv is offline
Has code to be writing...
FRC #0125 (Nutrons)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Rookie Year: 2009
Location: Boston
Posts: 39
Ziv is a glorious beacon of lightZiv is a glorious beacon of lightZiv is a glorious beacon of lightZiv is a glorious beacon of lightZiv is a glorious beacon of light
Re: FIRST is realy looking into the Einstein problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by normpear2 View Post
That actually could explain why this happened.


Lack of being tested in competition conditions. There is a reasons most products are heavily tested before being used.
This has been brought up. It's certainly a possible factor, but mysterious communications issues occurred at several events—including some of the divisions—throughout the season. It's also unclear what would be different about this field from the others (something that I'm sure will be investigated if necessary in Manchester).
Reply With Quote
  #14   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-15-2012, 05:38 PM
Chris is me's Avatar
Chris is me Chris is me is offline
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
AKA: Pinecone
FRC #3929 (Atomic Dragons); fmr. FRC #228 (GUS) & FRC #2791 (Shaker)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 8,306
Chris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond repute
Re: FIRST is realy looking into the Einstein problems

I personally don't believe the issue was contained to a single field this year. I obviously have nothing to prove that point that isn't circumstantial, but I think making the assumption that this is an isolated incident that was unique to Einstein is not a safe one to make at all.
__________________
Mentor: 3929 (2018-?)
Mentor / Drive Coach: 228 (2016-2017) - 2016 RIDE Winner (with 1058, 6153)
Consultant Person: 2170 (2017)
College Mentor: 2791 (2010-2015) Build Photos - 2013 WPI Regional Finalists (with 20, 3182), 2012 BAE Finalists (with 1519, 885)
Student: 1714 (2009) - 2009 MN 10K Lakes Regional Winners (with 2826, 2470)
Reply With Quote
  #15   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-15-2012, 05:49 PM
jblay's Avatar
jblay jblay is offline
Here comes StuyPulse
AKA: Joe Blay
FRC #0694 (StuyPulse)
Team Role: Coach
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 1,006
jblay has a reputation beyond reputejblay has a reputation beyond reputejblay has a reputation beyond reputejblay has a reputation beyond reputejblay has a reputation beyond reputejblay has a reputation beyond reputejblay has a reputation beyond reputejblay has a reputation beyond reputejblay has a reputation beyond reputejblay has a reputation beyond reputejblay has a reputation beyond repute
Re: FIRST is realy looking into the Einstein problems

Are the teams travel and hotel costs being paid for by FIRST? I sure hope so.

It seems like this email is kind of finally admitting it was a greater problem than just Einstein by asking teams to email in the issues they had outside of Einstein which I think is crucial to not only finding the cause of the issue but also restoring people's faith in the way FIRST deals with these issues.
__________________
It's pronounced StighPulse like HighPulse
2016 Curie Champions
2016 New York City Champions
2016 New York City Engineering Inspiration
2015 New York City Finalists
2013 New York City Champions
2012 Connecticut Chairman's
2011 Connecticut Chairman's
2010 Connecticut Chairman's

2010 New York City Champions
2008 New York City Engineering Inspiration
2007 New York City Finalists
2006 New York City Finalists
2005 New York City Chairman's
2003 New York City Champions
2002 New York City Engineering Inspiration
2001 New York City Finalists
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:33 PM.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi