OCCRA
Go to Post I think there are a ton of teams that would kill for one let alone three engineering mentors (especially one with the knowledge and experience that Rich Olivera has). - XaulZan11 [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > FIRST > General Forum
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Reply
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 12-21-2010, 10:34 PM
JaneYoung JaneYoung is offline
Onward through the fog.
no team
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Austin, TX USA
Posts: 6,007
JaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond repute
The Difference Between Red Herring Clues And Official Game Hints

Hi all,

As we begin to repeat ourselves in the 1st Official Game Hint thread for 2011, I thought it might be interesting for archival purposes and as a reference - to discuss the differences between the unofficial hints/clues and the Official Game Hints.

Would anyone like to give this one a try? First of all, when did we start receiving Official Game Hints directly from FRC? How far back do the official ones go and what were they? Before that, the hints/clues were unofficial and Dave Lavery was behind most of them, right? We also have had some FIRSTers/CD members who created their own hints/hoaxes/chaos, right? What were those and who were the pranksters?

This might be information that will help new members who try to make sense of the excitement and anticipation leading up to Kick off. It will also give us something to do.

I've enjoyed the hints as far back as I go which is not far enough and I sure don't know the history behind any of it.

Thanks for any input and help.

Jane
__________________
Excellence is contagious. ~ Andy Baker, President, AndyMark, Inc. and Woodie Flowers Award 2003

Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through experience of trial and suffering can the soul be strengthened, ambition inspired, and success achieved.
~ Helen Keller
(1880-1968)

Last edited by JaneYoung : 12-21-2010 at 10:39 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 12-21-2010, 10:46 PM
EricH's Avatar
EricH EricH is offline
New year, new team
FRC #1197 (Torbots)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: SoCal
Posts: 20,566
EricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Difference Between Red Herring Clues And Official Game Hints

Official hints began for the 2003 season, Stack Attack, IIRC.

2003: the quadratic formula, used as the scoring formula. (not quite sure if that was official or unofficial via Dave's signature)
2004: Lines from the song, "Stairway to Heaven". (Same note as 2003)
2005: Riddle.
2006: Riddle.
2007: Picture of a scored game piece--up close, so only the inside edge of the game piece and the diamond-plate circle with the number 5 on it showed.
2008: 3 hints: IR receiver board, GPS coordinates of the Tortoise and Hare statue in Boston, and "Vets Hurdling First Tetras", which was an anagram of the password to the manual, minus punctuation.
2009: First a picture of an opah, or moonfish, then a riddle.
2010: 2 CAD models of field parts
2011: See hint thread; reversed album cover.

Fakes: Various rumors that turned out not to be true, but there is one classic one that was fairly close in some aspects: A leak was claimed before the 2001 game.
Greg Needel's hoaxes were the sort of "it's out! Ha, ha, fooled you"; 2009/2010.

Lavery red herrings: Numerous. Random sayings, faked pictures, comments about whack the Billfred being the game, you name it. Epic red herring was the morse-code signature spacing for the 2010 season. And yes, some herrings are red when Dave posts them. Typically 3-4 or more per season.
__________________
Past teams:
2003-2007: FRC0330 BeachBots; 2008: FRC1135 Shmoebotics; 2012: FRC4046 Schroedinger's Dragons

"Rockets are tricky..."--Elon Musk


Reply With Quote
  #3   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 12-22-2010, 08:38 AM
Joe Ross's Avatar Unsung FIRST Hero
Joe Ross Joe Ross is offline
Registered User
FRC #0330 (Beachbots)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Rookie Year: 1997
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 8,733
Joe Ross has a reputation beyond reputeJoe Ross has a reputation beyond reputeJoe Ross has a reputation beyond reputeJoe Ross has a reputation beyond reputeJoe Ross has a reputation beyond reputeJoe Ross has a reputation beyond reputeJoe Ross has a reputation beyond reputeJoe Ross has a reputation beyond reputeJoe Ross has a reputation beyond reputeJoe Ross has a reputation beyond reputeJoe Ross has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Difference Between Red Herring Clues And Official Game Hints

The real question is has anybody ever learned anything actionable from a game hint or red herring.
Reply With Quote
  #4   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 12-22-2010, 09:03 AM
Rich Kressly's Avatar
Rich Kressly Rich Kressly is offline
Robot/STEM troublemaker since 2001
no team (Formerly 103 & 1712. Now run U.P. Robotics (other programs))
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Pennsburg, PA
Posts: 2,045
Rich Kressly has a reputation beyond reputeRich Kressly has a reputation beyond reputeRich Kressly has a reputation beyond reputeRich Kressly has a reputation beyond reputeRich Kressly has a reputation beyond reputeRich Kressly has a reputation beyond reputeRich Kressly has a reputation beyond reputeRich Kressly has a reputation beyond reputeRich Kressly has a reputation beyond reputeRich Kressly has a reputation beyond reputeRich Kressly has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Difference Between Red Herring Clues And Official Game Hints

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Ross View Post
The real question is has anybody ever learned anything actionable from a game hint or red herring.
In my experience, no.

I always advise teams I'm associated with to ignore them and have a safe and restful holiday season. However, I also include the link to those hints and discussions in the same email because the sadistic side of my loves the fact that some people just can't help themselves. I get a kick out of seeing the self-torture despite having my best advice right in front of them.

Wrong to do, I know. But exceedingly amusing for me.

Enjoy the holiday herring, no matter what part of the RGB spectrum you observe this time of year.
__________________
technology, innovation, and invention without a social conscience will only allow us to destroy ourselves in more creative ways
Reply With Quote
  #5   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 12-22-2010, 09:23 AM
Jon Stratis's Avatar
Jon Stratis Jon Stratis is online now
Mentor, LRI, MN RPC
FRC #2177 (The Robettes)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 4,314
Jon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Difference Between Red Herring Clues And Official Game Hints

There is one thing that occurred to me this morning... With such a huge history of "unofficial" hints and clues, and the amount of attention everyone here pays to Dave's posts and Bill's blog, it would be incredibly easy for them to drop something innocuous in their posts that would completely twist the way people look at the official game clues. For example, I've heard a lot of speculation around stairs after the official clue, linking the fact that the backup singers were standing on stairs to various statements/pictures made over the past few months. That could be a complete red herring, designed to keep us from figuring out what the clue really means.
Reply With Quote
  #6   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 12-22-2010, 09:28 AM
IndySam's Avatar
IndySam IndySam is offline
Registered User
FRC #0829 (Digital Goats)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Indy
Posts: 3,429
IndySam has a reputation beyond reputeIndySam has a reputation beyond reputeIndySam has a reputation beyond reputeIndySam has a reputation beyond reputeIndySam has a reputation beyond reputeIndySam has a reputation beyond reputeIndySam has a reputation beyond reputeIndySam has a reputation beyond reputeIndySam has a reputation beyond reputeIndySam has a reputation beyond reputeIndySam has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Difference Between Red Herring Clues And Official Game Hints

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Ross View Post
The real question is has anybody ever learned anything actionable from a game hint or red herring.
No.

Their just for fun. At best they give the game name or some part of the field that really tells you nothing about the game.

I love every year watching people try to figure out the game from them. The wild speculation is amazing and never correct.

I miss the riddles, they were always the most fun.
__________________
"Champions are champions not because they do anything extraordinary but because they do the ordinary things better than anyone else." —Chuck Knoll


Reply With Quote
  #7   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 12-22-2010, 10:36 AM
JaneYoung JaneYoung is offline
Onward through the fog.
no team
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Austin, TX USA
Posts: 6,007
JaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Difference Between Red Herring Clues And Official Game Hints

Oh bah humbug, guys. It is a terrible thing to enjoy silliness, cleverness, and fun. Especially during the holidays. That's why I never ever think about, quote, or watch any Monty Python movies after the 21st.

Seriously.

Jane

P.S. Thanks, Eric. If anyone has any specifics to add, that would be awesome.
__________________
Excellence is contagious. ~ Andy Baker, President, AndyMark, Inc. and Woodie Flowers Award 2003

Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through experience of trial and suffering can the soul be strengthened, ambition inspired, and success achieved.
~ Helen Keller
(1880-1968)
Reply With Quote
  #8   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 12-22-2010, 10:49 AM
dlavery's Avatar
dlavery dlavery is offline
Curmudgeon
FRC #0116 (Epsilon Delta)
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Rookie Year: 1996
Location: Herndon, VA
Posts: 3,176
dlavery has a reputation beyond reputedlavery has a reputation beyond reputedlavery has a reputation beyond reputedlavery has a reputation beyond reputedlavery has a reputation beyond reputedlavery has a reputation beyond reputedlavery has a reputation beyond reputedlavery has a reputation beyond reputedlavery has a reputation beyond reputedlavery has a reputation beyond reputedlavery has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Difference Between Red Herring Clues And Official Game Hints

Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneYoung View Post
That's why I never ever think about, quote, or watch any Monty Python movies after the 21st.
But it's not got much Spam in it...




.
__________________
"I know what you're thinking, punk," hissed Wordy Harry to his new editor, "you're thinking, 'Did he use six superfluous adjectives or only five?' - and to tell the truth, I forgot myself in all this excitement; but being as this is English, the most powerful language in the world, whose subtle nuances will blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' - well do you, punk?"
- Stuart Vasepuru, 2006 Bulwer-Lytton Fiction Contest



My OTHER CAR is still on Mars!!!
Reply With Quote
  #9   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 12-22-2010, 11:02 AM
Travis Hoffman's Avatar Unsung FIRST Hero
Travis Hoffman Travis Hoffman is offline
O-H
FRC #0048 (Delphi E.L.I.T.E.)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Warren, Ohio USA
Posts: 4,219
Travis Hoffman has a reputation beyond reputeTravis Hoffman has a reputation beyond reputeTravis Hoffman has a reputation beyond reputeTravis Hoffman has a reputation beyond reputeTravis Hoffman has a reputation beyond reputeTravis Hoffman has a reputation beyond reputeTravis Hoffman has a reputation beyond reputeTravis Hoffman has a reputation beyond reputeTravis Hoffman has a reputation beyond reputeTravis Hoffman has a reputation beyond reputeTravis Hoffman has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Difference Between Red Herring Clues And Official Game Hints

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Ross View Post
The real question is has anybody ever learned anything actionable from a game hint or red herring.
I think the closest to do this was Madison K in 2006 who figured out the Shovel's Show part of the clue (David Spade - Just Shoot Me) and inferred a game dealing with projectiles.

I recall that Dave explicitly mentioned this during the kickoff.
__________________

Travis Hoffman, Enginerd, FRC Team 48 Delphi E.L.I.T.E.
Encouraging Learning in Technology and Engineering - www.delphielite.com
2017 Miami Valley Regional Champions w/ 2451 & 4085
2017 Smoky Mountains Regional Champions w/ 744 & 3140
NEOFRA - Northeast Ohio FIRST Robotics Alliance - www.neofra.com
Reply With Quote
  #10   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 12-22-2010, 11:05 AM
Basel A's Avatar
Basel A Basel A is offline
It's pronounced Basl with a soft s
AKA: @BaselThe2nd
FRC #3504 (Girls of Steel)
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Rookie Year: 2009
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 2,099
Basel A has a reputation beyond reputeBasel A has a reputation beyond reputeBasel A has a reputation beyond reputeBasel A has a reputation beyond reputeBasel A has a reputation beyond reputeBasel A has a reputation beyond reputeBasel A has a reputation beyond reputeBasel A has a reputation beyond reputeBasel A has a reputation beyond reputeBasel A has a reputation beyond reputeBasel A has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Difference Between Red Herring Clues And Official Game Hints

Quote:
Originally Posted by dlavery View Post
But it's not got much Spam in it...




.
That, sir, is a sketch. Not a movie.
Thus, the intended irony has gone awry.
__________________
Team 2337 | 2009-2012 | Student
Team 3322 | 2014-2017 | College Student
Team 3504 | 2018 | Grad Student
“Be excellent in everything you do and the results will just happen.”
-Paul Copioli
Reply With Quote
  #11   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 12-22-2010, 11:08 AM
JaneYoung JaneYoung is offline
Onward through the fog.
no team
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Austin, TX USA
Posts: 6,007
JaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Difference Between Red Herring Clues And Official Game Hints

Quote:
Originally Posted by Basel A View Post
That, sir, is a sketch. Not a movie.
Thus, the intended irony has gone awry.
That, sir, is the meaning of life.

Going awry.
__________________
Excellence is contagious. ~ Andy Baker, President, AndyMark, Inc. and Woodie Flowers Award 2003

Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through experience of trial and suffering can the soul be strengthened, ambition inspired, and success achieved.
~ Helen Keller
(1880-1968)
Reply With Quote
  #12   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 12-22-2010, 11:12 AM
Bill_B Bill_B is offline
You cannot not make a difference
FRC #2170
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 1,099
Bill_B has a reputation beyond reputeBill_B has a reputation beyond reputeBill_B has a reputation beyond reputeBill_B has a reputation beyond reputeBill_B has a reputation beyond reputeBill_B has a reputation beyond reputeBill_B has a reputation beyond reputeBill_B has a reputation beyond reputeBill_B has a reputation beyond reputeBill_B has a reputation beyond reputeBill_B has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Difference Between Red Herring Clues And Official Game Hints

Quote:
Originally Posted by Basel A View Post
...
Thus, the intended irony has gone awry.
I always thought songs from Steely Dan should have more irony in them. In FRC 'bots, we find mostly aluminy along with the going awry parts.
Reply With Quote
  #13   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 12-22-2010, 11:33 AM
OZ_341's Avatar Unsung FIRST Hero
OZ_341 OZ_341 is offline
Registered User
#0341 (Wissahickon)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Ambler, PA
Posts: 1,482
OZ_341 has a reputation beyond reputeOZ_341 has a reputation beyond reputeOZ_341 has a reputation beyond reputeOZ_341 has a reputation beyond reputeOZ_341 has a reputation beyond reputeOZ_341 has a reputation beyond reputeOZ_341 has a reputation beyond reputeOZ_341 has a reputation beyond reputeOZ_341 has a reputation beyond reputeOZ_341 has a reputation beyond reputeOZ_341 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Difference Between Red Herring Clues And Official Game Hints

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricH View Post
Official hints began for the 2003 season, Stack Attack, IIRC.
.........
Actually, in 2002 FIRST gave us the BOM for the raw materials to build the goal in advance of the 2002 game. They did not say it was a goal, but we figured out what it was from the purchasing list. We did not build it of course and had no idea what would go in these goals. But it sure was fun thinking about what it could be.

So in the end, even that giant hint did not really help prior to receiving the full game. It was just fun.
__________________
2010 Championship Chairman's Award
2016 MAR District Champion (thank you 225 & 1257)
2016 Galileo Division, #6 Seed, 9 W - 1 L
2016 MAR District Innovation in Controls Award
2016 Westtown District Finalist (thank you 4954 & 484)
2016 Westtown District Imagery Award (It took 17 yrs)
2016 Hatboro District Judge's Award
Overall Record 49 W - 21 L
Reply With Quote
  #14   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 12-22-2010, 11:47 AM
MrForbes's Avatar
MrForbes MrForbes is offline
Registered User
AKA: Jim
FRC #1726 (N.E.R.D.S.)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Sierra Vista AZ
Posts: 6,103
MrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Difference Between Red Herring Clues And Official Game Hints

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Ross View Post
The real question is has anybody ever learned anything actionable from a game hint or red herring.
Possibly....

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...4&postcount=79
Reply With Quote
  #15   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 12-22-2010, 11:52 AM
Ian Curtis Ian Curtis is offline
Best Available Data
FRC #1778 (Chill Out!)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Snohomish
Posts: 2,557
Ian Curtis has a reputation beyond reputeIan Curtis has a reputation beyond reputeIan Curtis has a reputation beyond reputeIan Curtis has a reputation beyond reputeIan Curtis has a reputation beyond reputeIan Curtis has a reputation beyond reputeIan Curtis has a reputation beyond reputeIan Curtis has a reputation beyond reputeIan Curtis has a reputation beyond reputeIan Curtis has a reputation beyond reputeIan Curtis has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Difference Between Red Herring Clues And Official Game Hints

Quote:
Originally Posted by OZ_341 View Post
Actually, in 2002 FIRST gave us the BOM for the raw materials to build the goal in advance of the 2002 game. They did not say it was a goal, but we figured out what it was from the purchasing list. We did not build it of course and had no idea what would go in these goals. But it sure was fun thinking about what it could be.

So in the end, even that giant hint did not really help prior to receiving the full game. It was just fun.
The field BOM definitely continued after that as well. I know I've looked over a few, and my first year was 2004. I want to say the last one was in 2007 because I remember there being a carriage bolt on the list, and I know we used those to attach the plates to the end of the spiders.

(We were never smart enough to figure out what we were supposed to build though.)
__________________
CHILL OUT! | Aero Stability & Control Engineer
Adam Savage's Obsessions (TED Talk) (Part 2)
It is much easier to call someone else a genius than admit to yourself that you are lazy. - Dave Gingery
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What's the difference between an X/Z and an X/Y 2-axis gyro? Randy Forgaard Sensors 7 01-18-2010 10:26 PM
Who is ready for the Red Herring? yodameister Rumor Mill 19 12-13-2008 12:13 PM
The difference between FIRST students (and everyone else) neutrino15 General Forum 10 09-07-2008 03:20 PM
What is the difference Between Autodesk Inventor and 3ds Max? sfcaddesigner CAD 3 02-13-2008 01:12 PM
What is the Difference between Parker and Bimba generalachoo Pneumatics 3 01-23-2005 03:58 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:47 PM.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi