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Unread 12-19-2007, 01:04 PM
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Re: pic: Game hint

Since I don't have access to the board, I cannot test it, but my assumption (yeah I know) was that out0-3 were analog outputs.


Code:
 
Name Pin # Signal Description
+VIN 1, 2 Positive power supply voltage input. Voltage should be in the range 7-15 volts
DC. Your power supply will have to be independent, for example, a 6 x AA
battery pack, 9V battery, 12V battery, bench top supply, or other.
GND 3, 4 Negative power supply voltage input
OUT2 5 Output signal associated with third trained button
OUT1 6 Output signal associated with second trained button
OUT3 7 Output signal associated with fourth trained button
OUT0 8 Output signal associated with first trained button
NC 9, 10 Unused
And if we were allowed to use an array of these sensors you could quickly position where and what orientation you were on the playing field.
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Unread 12-19-2007, 01:12 PM
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Re: pic: Game hint

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel_LaFleur View Post
but my assumption (yeah I know) was that out0-3 were analog outputs.
Sorry Bro,
According to the documentation available from FIRST:
"Each output provides a 100 mSec high (5V) pulse when its command is recognized."

No analog here, just one discrete output per input. Either High or Low.

Don't worry, I don't take the "me" part of your assumption personal.
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Unread 12-19-2007, 01:21 PM
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Cool Re: pic: Game hint

Pin description on J2 is a classic PIC -ICSP programming port.
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Unread 12-19-2007, 02:02 PM
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Re: pic: Game hint

Quote:
Originally Posted by billbo911 View Post
Sorry Bro,
According to the documentation available from FIRST:
"Each output provides a 100 mSec high (5V) pulse when its command is recognized."

No analog here, just one discrete output per input. Either High or Low.

Don't worry, I don't take the "me" part of your assumption personal.
Digital ... darn. And here I was hoping for a navagation aide.
Ah, well .

Thats what I get for assuming
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Unread 12-19-2007, 03:29 PM
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Re: pic: Game hint

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamHeard View Post
I'm no electronics expert, but I think running this off of the 12V battery will all the crazy loads on it would be bad (but then again.... the RC is off the 12V...). Is this true?
It would still probably be okay with crazy loads as long as the voltage stays between the required 7.5V and 15V, which it should unless you run your main battery really really low (which is bad for the battery anyways).
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Unread 12-19-2007, 03:31 PM
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Re: pic: Game hint

Personally I don't think it will be part of the robot.

However I do like some of the Ideas that have been presented. Should make for an interesting year.

16 days 18 hours and 28 minutes till kickoff.
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Unread 12-19-2007, 04:01 PM
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Re: pic: Game hint

Quote:
Originally Posted by billbo911 View Post
So I guess the 12vdc battery on the robots is just there for counter balance?
actually our team did use the battery that way one year.

come on Mr. Bill.
you have seen some of the things first has done in the past. maybe they forgot that the 3 pin connector for a digital input has +5 volts on one of the pins. so, why connect to and draw power from the breaker panel to operate this board?

did they need a 5 volt regulator on the board and on the robot controller?

i think you are looking at only half of the system here. for IR communication, the robot will have a transmitter. the IR reciever is the half that is placed on the field. we can use any old handheld remote for now. but we will have something else in the kit of parts.

jerry w
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Unread 12-19-2007, 04:14 PM
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Re: pic: Game hint

Quote:
Originally Posted by jerry w View Post
we can use any old handheld remote for now. but we will have something else in the kit of parts.
Like this? http://www.woot.com/Blog/BlogEntry.a...ogEntryId=3584

.99 cents + 5 dollar shipping from there when it was available.
I'm sure FIRST could have convinced Woot to sell them a ton of them for even cheaper.
(btw, I love the time on the timestamp in that summary about it.)
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Unread 12-19-2007, 04:21 PM
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Re: pic: Game hint

Quote:
Originally Posted by jerry w View Post
actually our team did use the battery that way one year.

Come on Mr. Bill.
You have seen some of the things first has done in the past. Maybe they forgot that the 3 pin connector for a digital input has +5 volts on one of the pins. So, why connect to and draw power from the breaker panel to operate this board?

Did they need a 5 volt regulator on the board and on the robot controller?

I think you are looking at only half of the system here. for IR communication, the robot will have a transmitter. the IR receiver is the half that is placed on the field. we can use any old handheld remote for now. but we will have something else in the kit of parts.

jerry w

We've been known to use a battery that way as well. Why waste that much weight and compensate for it elsewhere?

I really doubt FIRST would "forget" +5vdc is there. But, then again, the GTS from the 2005 KOP required +12vdc. as well, and it had to come from the battery. Besides, here are some quotes from the Users Guide:
Quote:
"Assuming a 12VDC supply,"
and
Quote:
"Voltage should be in the range 7-15 volts
DC. Your power supply will have to be independent, for example, a 6 x AA
battery pack, 9V battery, 12V battery....."
So, if the robot will have the transmitter, then why manufacture one receiver board, at a minimum, per team and also spend the money and manpower on shipping?

As for a transmitter being in the KOP, I definitely agree, that is a possibility!

I guess all this back and forth is fine for now. We both will know for sure come Kick Off.
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Unread 12-19-2007, 04:25 PM
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Re: pic: Game hint

So, I was thinking. Could it be possible even though all rational people might say this game will never happen ... Does IR work underwater? Or more importantly, through an air-water interface? ... sigh ... I was going to sleep over the holidays, now I'm wrapped up in the mayhem too ...
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Unread 12-19-2007, 04:40 PM
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Re: pic: Game hint

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Kressly View Post
So, I was thinking. Could it be possible even though all rational people might say this game will never happen ... Does IR work underwater? Or more importantly, through an air-water interface? ... sigh ... I was going to sleep over the holidays, now I'm wrapped up in the mayhem too ...
Light does pass through the air water barrier but it bends as it does so.
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Unread 12-19-2007, 05:03 PM
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Re: pic: Game hint

I know pretty much for certain we'll get some IR emitters in the kit. Anyone ever stalled a Fisher-Price? (sorry, couldn't resist)
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Unread 12-19-2007, 05:06 PM
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Re: pic: Game hint

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel_LaFleur View Post
Light does pass through the air water barrier but it bends as it does so.
Water's refractive index is about 4/3. Light originating on the water side will be partially reflected (back into the water) and partially refracted (into the air) at angles given by Snell's Law. Light originating in the water and incident on the surface at an angle greater than about 49 degrees will be totally reflected back into the water.

So some underwater positions will permit better transmission of IR than others.
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Unread 12-19-2007, 05:18 PM
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Re: pic: Game hint

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard View Post
Water's refractive index is about 4/3. Light originating on the water side will be partially reflected (back into the water) and partially refracted (into the air) at angles given by Snell's Law. Light originating in the water and incident on the surface at an angle greater than about 49 degrees will be totally reflected back into the water.

So some underwater positions will permit better transmission of IR than others.
I wasn't going to get into the math of it because it's highly unlikely that we'll need to transmit (or recieve) through the air/water barrier.

Also, you will most likely be able to transmit at greater angles because the surface of water will (most likely) never be a perfect plane.

Snell's law could come into play though if you tried to protect your sensor with polycarbonate ... which also makes me wonder if polycarbonate is opaque to IR ... Hmmmmm
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Unread 12-19-2007, 05:25 PM
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Re: pic: Game hint

Polycarbonate isn't opaque to IR
I think...
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