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Unread 01-24-2018, 11:07 PM
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Re: Sick of Github: Use Google Drive

I can completely relate. When I first learned Git, the commands were quite a bit confusing. Here are a few links that might help. Though, I can echo what the rest have said I really think that git is worth the learning curve you will definitely appreciate it learning it in the long run

Setup git repo: http://kbroman.org/github_tutorial/pages/init.html
The basics: http://rogerdudler.github.io/git-guide/
Fixing common git issues: http://ohshitgit.com/

Once you have the repo setup, you really only need to know:
Code:
$ git status # tracks file changes since the last commit
$ git add . # adds all changed files to commit. Or instead of the "." (dot) put the specific names of the files you want to commit
$ git status # verify that the files were added (they will be green)
$ git commit -m "Descriptive commit message goes here"
$ git push origin master # your upstream should have been setup in the initialization process could be BitBucket, GitLab, or GitHub, among others
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Unread 01-25-2018, 12:37 AM
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Re: Sick of Github: Use Google Drive

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Originally Posted by Jacobf18 View Post

But, Google Drive can be used with Eclipse in a much easier way than Github.
You don't need plugins or anything fancy like that.
I hope there aren't any teams out there being lead down the wrong path by your frankly awful advice. Google drive may be more user friendly but it is also 100% not designed for software development and version control. Perhaps a moderator could delete this thread to limit the damage?
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Unread 01-25-2018, 01:23 AM
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Re: Sick of Github: Use Google Drive

Here at 2898, we found git doesn't quite meet our ease of use criteria. After all, some kids have been driving robots since middle school. So, we figured, why not develop a system kids have been using since birth? We decided upon a technique we refer to as G.I.T., or General Intelligence-based code Transmission. Rather than relying on difficult and unintuitive software, we simply have our programmers remember all of the code they are working on, typing it from scratch whenever they switch computers. After all, there's no point in writing code if you're just going to forget what you wrote a month later. This has the additional benefit of resulting in far more interesting merge conflicts. Instead of having to learn things like "merge strategies," we simply lock them in a room and let the best programmer win.

Shoutout to Brendan from team 1458, who has worked with us from the very beginning to pioneer this revolutionary version control system.

Last edited by solomondg : 01-25-2018 at 01:35 AM.
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Unread 01-25-2018, 01:41 AM
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Re: Sick of Github: Use Google Drive

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtrv View Post
my head hurts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 42! View Post
I hope there aren't any teams out there being lead down the wrong path by your frankly awful advice. Google drive may be more user friendly but it is also 100% not designed for software development and version control. Perhaps a moderator could delete this thread to limit the damage?
Quote:
Originally Posted by solomondg View Post
Here at 2898, we found git doesn't quite meet our ease of use criteria. After all, some kids have been driving robots since middle school. So, we figured, why not develop a system kids have been using since birth? We decided upon a technique we refer to as G.I.T., or General Intelligence-based code Transmission. Rather than relying on difficult and unintuitive software, we simply have our programmers remember all of the code they are working on, typing it from scratch whenever they switch computers. After all, there's no point in writing code if you're just going to forget what you wrote a month later. This has the additional benefit of resulting in far more interesting merge conflicts. Instead of having to learn things like "merge strategies," we simply lock them in a room and let the best programmer win.

Shoutout to Brendan from team 1458, who has worked with us from the very beginning to pioneer this revolutionary version control system.
Let's try to offer guidance and expertise rather than post trollish or inflammatory comments.
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Unread 01-25-2018, 01:52 AM
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Re: Sick of Github: Use Google Drive

While this is a creative use of google drive you need to remember this is not what google drive was designed for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacobf18 View Post
Don't work on the same files at the same time because that will probably lead to someone overriding someone else. Just make sure to be communicating all of the time.
Google drive is basically designed around what you are telling people not to do, its a platform that enables live collaboration. If you are set on using Google look into Google Cloud Platform. There is a free trial but it also states that you can upgrade to a "paid account" so I'm not sure about all the details. The fact that Google has a product alongside Drive for this exact problem should be a major indicator that Google Drive is not intended to be used for version control. Again creative solution and if it works it works. If you are still planning on using Google Drive just be very careful syncing things and who has access to what.


While were at it RIP Google Code, you never stood a chance.

TLDR: I see you found a square peg that fits a round hole so don't expect a perfect fit.
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Unread 01-25-2018, 06:32 AM
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Re: Sick of Github: Use Google Drive

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...all chaos unsued.
What kind of chaos?

If you would, please describe the chaos in more detail for the benefit of interested readers.


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Unread 01-25-2018, 06:39 AM
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Re: Sick of Github: Use Google Drive

I can speak to google drive, since I tried to use it and dropbox years ago. Our CAD mentor has tried it because he uses it for his work, but he is having a struggle when kids change the drive structure, or delete files, and watch assemblies just suddenly stop loading from the project.

Drive is meant for a single user - not multiple untrained users who can potentially create a giant mess by moving directory structures or deleting files willy-nilly.

Our system is simple. I hold the "master" code on my usb stick / laptop. I think we've only gotten up to four copy-of-copies recently.... When the kids finish a VI, we can go through it and I can put it in the project. Works ok for 8 or 9 people who meet almost daily, though I could see where a 'work from different locations' group would definitely want to learn git.
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Unread 01-25-2018, 07:24 AM
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Re: Sick of Github: Use Google Drive

I'm not sure if OP meant they didn't like Git or GitHub.com. If the latter, then I can understand to some extent as Gitlab.com works better for my workflow. I'm an admittedly old man whose first experience with version control started in the late 80's with something called SCCS. I now use Git every day. It is the net below my tight-rope protecting me from the snapping jaws of the crocodiles of failure.

If OP is talking about Git, the version control system, then I would urge them to stick with it because the rewards are worth it.

One persistent problem our team has had in recent years is the programmers coming to drive team to introduce a new feature which then breaks the robot. Programmers then spend a couple of hours trying to debug the problem and resurrect the robot while the drive team sits around. This year we have a rule. The drive team is the customer and the release branch must always function. Programmers experiment on feature branches and if a feature branch is broken, the drive team can quickly switch back to the release branch and get back to practicing. Once a feature branch has been proven to work, a merge request is issued and must be approved/merged by a senior member.
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Unread 01-25-2018, 07:29 AM
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Re: Sick of Github: Use Google Drive

There's always that one engineer who simply rejects Git in spite of its fundamental awesome. Looks like we found another one.

Google drive 'works', until you're yelling at each other to
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STAY OUT OF THE *** FILE, I SWEAR TO GOD I'M ALMOST DONE.
(Actual quote from that one engineer)
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Unread 01-25-2018, 07:33 AM
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Re: Sick of Github: Use Google Drive

Somewhat related, I was hoping for something a bit more educational and informative out of the github comic in the KoP. I was sadly disappointed.

git and github.com are great tools that really shine when you know how to use them well. The learning curve isn't easy...but totally worth it.
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Unread 01-25-2018, 08:04 AM
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Re: Sick of Github: Use Google Drive

Quote:
Originally Posted by JesseK View Post
There's always that one engineer who simply rejects Git in spite of its fundamental awesome. Looks like we found another one.

Google drive 'works', until you're yelling at each other to


(Actual quote from that one engineer)
There does always seem to be that person...

OP - some form of real version control is a fact of life in the real world of software development. I highly recommend just biting the bullet and dealing with it. GIT seems to be the most common one I've seen.
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Unread 01-25-2018, 08:30 AM
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Re: Sick of Github: Use Google Drive

I resisted Git for many years because my first experiences with it were awful. To add on to the pile, it is pretty okay once you know how to use it.

My favorite tutorial for learning Git is Codecademy. They teach you how to use the command line version and I think its a good place for getting your feet wet and starting to understand Git.

Command line interface is powerful but can be tricky to use (and I always forget the commands) and I really don't understand what is going on with Git's desktop app. A middle ground that gives you a good amount of control without being a huge pain to learn is TortoiseGit - it's an added menu when you right click on a file... no more memorizing commands!

I completely understand frustrations with Git - it can be confusing to learn and easy to dismiss as "too complicated for the benefits." It is easy to feel like using Git for robotics is like using a chainsaw to cut bread - but besides having a way to recover older versions of your code (a godsend when you inevitably break everything with a new feature), learning Git will give you an advantage for the future should you pursue any career or hobby that has anything to do with writing code.
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Unread 01-25-2018, 08:37 AM
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Re: Sick of Github: Use Google Drive

If you are trying to model/teach "real life" experiences to the students, learn & teach some form of version control.

Google Drive is categorically not version control, it is a cloud based sharing space. The only win is has is that it puts your code in a relatively safe and backed up space.

Even if you only have 1 or a very small number of programmers, you still should do version control since it is fundamental to that activity space (see first comment). It also, and this is key, allows you to back out of changes, and manage the relationship history between various files.

Having lived through the "we don't need version control", its all in my head", "which of these files has the latest changes" and my favourite "I am positive these frantic semi random changes I am making will fix the problem" which seems to almost always be followed by "hummm, that didn't work, now what did I just change", I am much much happier with a software team that has embraced and uses Git.
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Unread 01-25-2018, 09:17 AM
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Re: Sick of Github: Use Google Drive

Jealous that you have GitHub as an option.

We were able to use GitHub a several years back, but we barely got the new people trained when our school's IT department decided to block GitHub.

We turned to Google Drive for a short period of time, but as others have said it isn't a CM tool. Many things a CM tool does automatically or at least relatively easily, Google Drive cannot do without huge manual intervention. It was a miserable failure since many assumed it was a CM tool and treated as such. We ended up abandoning Google Drive due to the pain it caused us. We went to go a sneaker net model with thumb drives and a person responsible for merging and managing the daily versions until we could set up a configuration management system on a laptop and validate we understood how it worked.

Everything that is available on GitHub that we can't get to without setting our phones up as hot spots adds to my jealousy.
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Unread 01-25-2018, 09:22 AM
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Re: Sick of Github: Use Google Drive

LabView programming supports Github, as long as you control it directly through the filesystem. Our team used Labview for years before switching to Java, and we used Git through that time. Labview doesn't interact beautifully with Git through NI's software, but as long as you use a tool such as GitKraken to control changes to the files of the project, Github is the way to go. Git is great because of it's "inconsistencies between computers". It allows for branching so multiple programmers can work on various things under one project, without requiring one to save and finish for the other to start. The ability to run Version Control and revert changes, see who has written what, and run unit tests by integrating GitHub far surpasses anything Google Drive comes close to. Besides, if you have any interest at all in programming as a job, Git is a needed skill. Git can be learned pretty easily, and once you get the hang of it's features and abilities, you will never want to use Google Drive for storing code.

I created a very simple presentation explaining Git's basic features and abilities for my team awhile back. Consider taking a look at it and contemplate truly learning Git for what it is. You won't regret it.
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