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Unread 01-06-2009, 05:33 PM
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Re: Team Update #1

Quote:
Originally Posted by tb222 View Post
I'm surprised this update didn't touch on G14!
They're leaving it in to act like the AWP in counterstrike.

A part of the gameplay so horribly imbalanced, everyone forgets about the other imbalances and just whines about that.
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Unread 01-06-2009, 05:36 PM
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Re: Team Update #1

It didn't touch on R06 either which I was hoping for.
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Unread 01-06-2009, 05:41 PM
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Re: Team Update #1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_I View Post
Please see the Team 811 motto (below)
Yes, that is a good motto for this year

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Originally Posted by Bobbitay View Post
Naw! While it may seem like that at face value; in my opinion, it promotes innovation and more thought. It's silly that most everyone has the same idea (as far as shielding, etc, go) yet think that they are all coming up with some great new idea. Just my two cents. Thanks for the update!
I agree... while it does increase the amount of thinking, it severly limits design ideas... this should be a fun game, but imo it will feature some wild crazy robots no one wou;d dream of... and some that are very similar to others... idk
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Unread 01-06-2009, 05:43 PM
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Re: Team Update #1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Schuetze View Post
I think what is troublesome to many veterans is that FIRST has always allowed some form of defense. Even last year when the object was to race around with trackballs and hurdle. Bonus points were earned for putting it back up at the end of the match. If played under this year's rules, once a trackball is up on the over-head it can't be knocked off.

So we have robot's towing trailers avoiding shots from human players on a surface that doesn't lend itself to control and rapid acceleration or changes in direction. Robots are limited to offense only. The only defense is backing yourself into a corner.
IMHO a lack of balance in game design.
No worries. Last I checked the Mars Rovers don't play any defense either and that's pretty cool stuff
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Unread 01-06-2009, 05:53 PM
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Re: Team Update #1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Kressly View Post
No worries. Last I checked the Mars Rovers don't play any defense either and that's pretty cool stuff
I think rovers on Mars are way cool but you won't get a crowd of enthusiastic participants cheering as they trudge 150 meters a day. Some part of FIRST is the excitement of the event. Why else do they call it a game. Why do they have a game.
The game is not everything and the real purpose is to get the inolvement of students and mentors but if there is a lack of excitement in the game then lack of involvement.

Not the end of the world, not that I can't deal with the rules as they are, but I can still wish for more defensive options which imho will add excitement to the game.
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Unread 01-06-2009, 05:54 PM
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Re: Team Update #1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Schuetze View Post
I think what is troublesome to many veterans is that FIRST has always allowed some form of defense. Even last year when the object was to race around with trackballs and hurdle. Bonus points were earned for putting it back up at the end of the match. If played under this year's rules, once a trackball is up on the over-head it can't be knocked off.

So we have robot's towing trailers avoiding shots from human players on a surface that doesn't lend itself to control and rapid acceleration or changes in direction. Robots are limited to offense only. The only defense is backing yourself into a corner.
IMHO a lack of balance in game design.
I kinda agree with you on this, but I don't think you can compare the scoring and tactics of two games that have little alike.

Imagine if we could put a plate over our trailers - Every team with half a brain would have to do that or else they will lose. Defense in this game is movement...Yea sure it's not super exciting to see 6 robots play "avoid" while every 15 seconds some robot makes a big score, but the last thing we need is to turn Lunacy into Zone Zeal where as long as you control all the goals and prevent any opponent scoring you win.
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Last edited by Tetraman : 01-06-2009 at 05:59 PM.
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Unread 01-06-2009, 05:59 PM
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Re: Team Update #1

So I guess the Trailer Hitch has to be designed to be easily removeable, huh?
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Unread 01-06-2009, 06:10 PM
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Re: Team Update #1

Quote:
Originally Posted by SWIM View Post
It sucks that you can't de-score balls.
It may suck, but I think that de-scoring game pieces isn't really the idea of the game. Besides, putting game pieces into your opponents' trailers would be more efficient, both timewise and pointwise, than removing game pieces from your alliance's trailers.
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Unread 01-06-2009, 06:16 PM
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Re: Team Update #1

Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryVoshol View Post
So I guess the Trailer Hitch has to be designed to be easily removeable, huh?
I was hoping that FIRST was going to give the inspectors crowbars and reciprocating saws, in order to speed up the sizing of robots whose trailer hitches stick out too far.

Realistically, only if your robot is nearly 28 in wide, and has the trailer hitch on the 38 in side, will it have trouble fitting in the existing sizing boxes. Given that the materials required for the hitch are standardized, a standard weight could be deducted from robots weighed with a hitch. (I suppose that to use a standard weight like this, it would be prudent to specifically disallow modifications to the hitch design that would permit a small robot weight advantage to be gained by lightening it. On the other hand, it's the system weight that matters anyway, so it would only be a technical violation of the rules, rather than a meaningful one.)

Last edited by Tristan Lall : 01-06-2009 at 06:19 PM.
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Unread 01-06-2009, 07:25 PM
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Re: Team Update #1

I didn't receive an e-mail blast about Team Update 1. Did anyone?

Rookies don't know to look for this stuff, so remember to get the word out to your local rookie teams about the changes this update implements.
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Unread 01-06-2009, 07:28 PM
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Re: Team Update #1

as a programmer Im wondering how Auto mode is going to work this year . . if robots cant place balls in bins? very confuseing
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Unread 01-06-2009, 07:37 PM
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Re: Team Update #1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuart View Post
as a programmer Im wondering how Auto mode is going to work this year . . if robots cant place balls in bins? very confuseing
Robots can still put balls in, as I am reading the rules, but you just have to get more creative as far as how to do it...
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Unread 01-06-2009, 07:38 PM
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Re: Team Update #1

Iíve thought this one through & I think this is the first true competition where offense is the best strategy and pretty much the only strategy. (The only other one I can think of was 2001 & there is no point to playing defense on the only alliance on the field, yours.) I know some defense can be played & people will get creative but, I like when people canít rely on un-doing what someone has worked to do. I wonít say that that defense isnít a viable strategy for FIRST but donít be afraid to break out from what you know & innovate.

As for inspiration & the growth of FIRST, it will survive. I couldnít stand 2001 because it was dry but FIRST has done pretty well since then. They canít all be Aim High & First Frenzy.
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Unread 01-06-2009, 07:55 PM
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Re: Team Update #1

I don't know, the whole way that FIRST does team updates . . kinda feels like a waiter brings out your food, puts it in front of you. then just as you get your forks out, hurries to change your order because the chef wanted to make soup not steak . . kinda unprofessional. In this regard is where I really have to say BEST manages better than FIRST.

but ohh well. on to how to place balls while being at least 10 inches away from where they need to be.

Edit: to elaborate on BEST's team updates method. they have a Q&A much like FIRST where rules are clarified. Past that there are no updates to the official rules or additional rules. Once the game is out that is the game that will be played. If BEST had intended for teams not to steal they would ( and have in past games) simply said teams cannot remove game items from other teams scoring areas.
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Last edited by Stuart : 01-06-2009 at 08:08 PM.
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Unread 01-06-2009, 08:04 PM
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Re: Team Update #1

For now, it looks like the "fan suck down" idea is still legal, if we can make it work. Given that we have these two extra CIM motors that won't be needed for the drive train, I think it is still worth investigating.
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