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Unread 08-13-2006, 08:31 PM
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Re: Why do we think we are better?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cody C
Um, please don't take offense if you have been wrongly grouped.

Before I posted this, I had a bunch of my friends that read some of the posts that have been happening, and that I am writing about, and they got the same feeling that I did.
Well Cody, like I said before in my previous post I will repost it again...

Please tell us where you or your friends have felt that we said we were better than them or we offended you guys so we get a chance to apologize.
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Unread 08-13-2006, 08:31 PM
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Re: Why do we think we are better?

All I'm thinking about during this arguement is:What Would Dean Do?
I bet that would make a great baseball cap to sell at the championships!
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Unread 08-13-2006, 08:32 PM
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Re: Why do we think we are better?

OK, if we aren't going to actually talk about the topic, then in the true style of the posts before thiss:

Show me where I said in the origional post that EVERY last FIRSTer feels this way.
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Unread 08-13-2006, 08:36 PM
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Re: Why do we think we are better?

OK, Arefin. and Anna.

Quote:
To put it another way, it's because we hold values like honesty, integrity, and intelligence dear, while so many others only care about looks, clothes, cars, etc.
Quote:
I am a bit surprised that you would post a picture of your team breaking the rules. This is not what FIRST is about. How do you expect others to trust you and your team when you flaunt the rules???? [img]images/smilies/confused.gif[/img]
Quote:
Whether or not the prices are exorbant is not the debate, they're still breaking rules and openly admitting to it, look at the title "Sneaky at Gen Con". To be honest I would have probably done similar, but I wouldn't tell everyone about it so publically, we're supposed to be setting examples, not showing off disobedience. I don't care really that the rules were broken, it does kind of bother me to see that fact flaunted about in a "Look what we did!" manner though.


Quote:
So what you are saying is that if its only a little penalty then it is OK as long as you are not caught. If I were to use the Nothing-But-DeWalt solution on our robot and used 6 Fisher Price motors then that would be OK as long as I didn't get caught. No one can see the motor inside the case so it is OK. The only penalty that I face is that if caught I would have to change out the motor before my next match. No big deal so I guess that makes it OK.

Are these really the standards of most FIRST participants? Maybe I will post a poll to see.


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Unread 08-13-2006, 08:38 PM
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Re: Why do we think we are better?

We aren't better than other people, but FIRSTers are still role models. Many FIRSTers interact with elementary or middle school students. Seniors are sometimes role models to freshman. Experienced and successful FIRST teams are role models to rookies. Mentors are role models. College students can be role models to other students. Dean Kamen is a role model. We aren't trying to make ourselves that way, but the fact is that we are. Remember Dean Kamen's thing about athletes and engineers as role models in the community? It's a big part of what FIRST is about.

Yes, we should all recognize that GP doesn't make us better than everyone else, and GP isn't better than a non-GP system of judgement or interaction. Gracious Professionalism is still important, and again it's part of what defines FIRST.

Having GP and being respectful and moral might give some people an attitude that they are better than other people. One needs to make sure they don't get that attitude but must still "hold values like honesty, integrity, and intelligence dear."

EDIT:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cody C
OK, Arefin. and Anna.
...
Also: I don't think FIRST is the reason for following rules, being respectful, etc. We should do that anyway.
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Last edited by Dan Zollman : 08-13-2006 at 08:43 PM.
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Unread 08-13-2006, 08:39 PM
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Re: Why do we think we are better?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cody C
OK, if we aren't going to actually talk about the topic, then in the true style of the posts before thiss:

Show me where I said in the origional post that EVERY last FIRSTer feels this way.
Not every last FIRSTer but a " general feeling"
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Unread 08-13-2006, 08:39 PM
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Re: Why do we think we are better?

You didn't say it outright, but generally I personally am getting the message that that is how YOU think. You said "We" throughout your original post, so who is this mysterious "We"? Since this is CD, I'm assuming the "We" is FIRST as a whole, because that's how it seems to work around here.

This was my first year in FIRST, and I'm not quite sure what you are going on about. I never had any delusions that I was better than my non-FIRST friends, and i certainly don't have more upright moral standing than my non-FIRST friends. So, since you are the one who posted this, are you telling me that YOU feel superior to your non-FIRST peers? Otherwise, why post this at all?

I don't think that the other CD participants appreciate this kind of insulting thread. It offended me, and it looks like it pissed off some other people as well. I'm really hoping that through the negative rep you are going to acquire through this post, you will have learned your lesson.

Good day to you, sir
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Unread 08-13-2006, 08:40 PM
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Re: Why do we think we are better?

Basically this is a branch off from this thread and this thread.

Guys, this is getting ridiculous times a million now. This all started because people thought a team was sneaking a case of mountain dew into a convention center, even when they had permission to bring it in. They posted a picture as a humorous joke. And now it has suddenly exploded into three completely varying and abstract topics, none of which really make any sense at all and are just leading to a bunch of off season arguing.
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Unread 08-13-2006, 08:41 PM
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Re: Why do we think we are better?

Is unfounded pride and hypocrisy a thing to be role modeled?
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Unread 08-13-2006, 08:43 PM
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Re: Why do we think we are better?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cody C
Is unfounded pride and hypocrisy a thing to be role modeled?
Unfounded pride and hypocrisy? Who is this? Is this what you see in FIRST?
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Unread 08-13-2006, 08:44 PM
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Re: Why do we think we are better?

Got me while I repliued there, and he is right.



All anybody is disagreeing with me about is that they don't like being generalized as a hypocrite, and nothing about the topic. Until EVERYONE in FIRST does so, then my first post still stands.
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Unread 08-13-2006, 08:45 PM
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Re: Why do we think we are better?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cody C
Got me while I repliued there, and he is right.



All anybody is disagreeing with me about is that they don't like being generalized as a hypocrite, and nothing about the topic. Until EVERYONE in FIRST does so, then my first post still stands.
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Unread 08-13-2006, 08:45 PM
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Re: Why do we think we are better?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koko Ed
Unfounded pride and hypocrisy? Who is this? Is this what you see in FIRST?
Not at all, Ed... I see FIRST as an inspiration for any upcoming engineers, both to be Great engineers and great people.

Great people don't brag about how great they are.

EDIT: Sorry Ed, that one did too
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Unread 08-13-2006, 08:46 PM
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Re: Why do we think we are better?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koko Ed
All I'm thinking about during this arguement is:What Would Dean Do?
I bet that would make a great baseball cap to sell at the championships!
Let's start a personality cult too!

I know, Dean seems like a nice guy, but this sort of thing implies blind adherance to someone else's beliefs—wouldn't you rather have people ask themselves "What Should I Do?", than pass off the responsibility for making morally justifiable decisions on to a figurehead?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cody C
I'm not bashing GP at all, I just won't pretend to be something that I'm not, and I definitely won't correct someone else's problems until I have fixed all of my own.
I, for one, will continue to correct other peoples' problems, irrespective of whether or not I've got my own problems solved. It's not hypocritical for me to provide assistance, even if I could use some assistance myself—indeed, who hasn't got a few problems hanging over them? (So, everyone take your best shots at my glass house, because I'll be swinging for the fences when I aim for yours!)
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Unread 08-13-2006, 08:48 PM
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Re: Why do we think we are better?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tristan Lall
Let's start a personality cult too!

I know, Dean seems like a nice guy, but this sort of thing implies blind adherance to someone else's beliefs—wouldn't you rather have people ask themselves "What Should I Do?", than pass off the responsibility for making morally justifiable decisions on to a figurehead?
Who said anything about blind adherance.
I'm talking about making boatloads of cash!
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