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Unread 01-13-2004, 04:28 PM
Aidan F. Browne's Avatar Unsung FIRST Hero
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Exclamation FYI: Team Update #1 is posted.

http://www.usfirst.org/robotics/doc_updt.htm
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Unread 01-13-2004, 05:07 PM
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Re: FYI: Team Update #1 is posted.

Game Changes:

<G02> Add- "Small balls may only be doubled once"
So theres no adding two doubler balls on top of one goal.

<G17> Add- " Or by small balls falling Unabated from ball release into Moblie Goal.
Robots are allowed to push the Movable goal under the ball carrier in order to get points.

"New Rules"
<G26> Robots may only block one chute at a time
Therefore both chutes are open during the match for both human player to use.

<G27> (Paraphrased) No pinning for more than 10 Seconds, must back off three feet before returing to the pin, If rule is violated, Ref throws 10-point penalty flag

I have just written down the chages to the 'GAME' part of the manual there are alos changes to the 'KIT' and 'TOURNAMENT' sections of the manual.
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Unread 01-13-2004, 05:24 PM
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Re: FYI: Team Update #1 is posted.

Minimalist Rules: We want this to be a purely offensive game. Don't do anything that we didn't think of to score or keep people from scoring.
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Unread 01-13-2004, 05:38 PM
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Re: FYI: Team Update #1 is posted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Ross
Minimalist Rules: We want this to be a purely offensive game. Don't do anything that we didn't think of to score or keep people from scoring.
Yes, that sums it up, right there. I hope the very few feasible defensive strategies remain legal through the 99 expected updates.
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Unread 01-13-2004, 05:44 PM
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Re: FYI: Team Update #1 is posted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Ross
Minimalist Rules: We want this to be a purely offensive game. Don't do anything that we didn't think of to score or keep people from scoring.
Just remember: with this year's scoring system, defense isn't neccesarily a good thing. You want to win, but you definitely want your opponent to score too. If the opposing alliance only scores 20 points, that's all you'll be getting too.
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Unread 01-13-2004, 05:45 PM
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Re: FYI: Team Update #1 is posted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aignam
Yes, that sums it up, right there. I hope the very few feasible defensive strategies remain legal through the 99 expected updates.
1. Blocking other robots from picking up small balls.
2. Blocking other robots from delivering small balls to HP.
3. Knocking off/Stealing big balls from goals.
4. Moving goals away from opponent HPs to prevent scoring.
5. Keeping another robot from climbing on the bar.
6. Hoarding big balls.
7. Capping an opponents goal early to prevent small ball scorage.
etc... etc.... etc


They all seem pretty feasible to me!
I'm still amazed at the options given a coach in this game.

This year's game is all about coaching and driving, and *gasp* defense!
Those that can't see the defensive moves, aren't looking hard enough.

John
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Unread 01-13-2004, 05:50 PM
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Re: FYI: Team Update #1 is posted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Ross
Minimalist Rules: We want this to be a purely offensive game. Don't do anything that we didn't think of to score or keep people from scoring.
Minimalist Rules:
We want this game to be as simple to understand and fun play as possible, while still making sure it is a positive experience for all those involved. Common sense and gracious professionalism rule the day...

Heck... in my opinion, they nailed this one, and everything in this addon HELPED what they are doing. This is a GREAT game.

Let's see:

1. It's fun to design for.
I'm having fun. Lots of engineering being done. Lot's of options. A true design challenge is present, but there is also a "rookie" solution.

2. It's fun to play.
Coaches game. A good drivetrain with a mediocre robot can outsmart a poorly driven "swiss watch". I love it! Everyone has to learn how to play the game.

3. It's fun to watch.
Big balls, small balls, pretty colors, decently easy scoring..... HANGING! Cmon guys... I can't wait!

4. Hanging.
Yeah, let's reemphasize... hanging rocks. Not only did FIRST give us back hanging (like we ASKED for) but they made it tougher. I can't wait to see the solutions teams come up with to get to 10ft. Let's face it... plow bots are boring compared to 10ft high robots with 30" balls!

FIRST is nailing it.
Let's help them along.

John
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Unread 01-13-2004, 05:53 PM
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Re: FYI: Team Update #1 is posted.

John- This year's game is not all about coaching and driving. It depends a lot on human player skill, because they are the only ones that can really get you points (besides hanging).
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Unread 01-13-2004, 06:10 PM
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Re: FYI: Team Update #1 is posted.

hey hey HEY! lets not start bashing people for developing defensive strategies!

what are you going to tell a small team with limited funds and no mentors? if you cant build a bot that can perform all the SCORING functions, then STAY HOME?!?!?!

this is a TWO against TWO game that is being played. There are many defensive moves a bot can legally make against your team - PLAN FOR IT!

this is NOT a race against the clock to see whose flimsy-bot can score the most points in 120 seconds - its a robot-sporting event

Two teams AGAINST two teams.
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Unread 01-13-2004, 06:24 PM
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Re: FYI: Team Update #1 is posted.

please dont paraphrase the rules and make it look like you cut and pasted them from the first website:

the exact wording on this one is:

"<G26> A ROBOT can only block 1 Ball Chute at a time."

not ROBOTS! - this means that one robot can block one chute, two robots can block two chutes...
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Unread 01-13-2004, 07:37 PM
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Re: FYI: Team Update #1 is posted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JVN
Minimalist Rules:

4. Hanging.
Yeah, let's reemphasize... hanging rocks. Not only did FIRST give us back hanging (like we ASKED for) but they made it tougher. I can't wait to see the solutions teams come up with to get to 10ft. Let's face it... plow bots are boring compared to 10ft high robots with 30" balls!

FIRST is nailing it.
Let's help them along.

John
I 2nd that!
This year's game appears to be the best one I have faced in my 6 years doing FIRST. And I like hanging; The 2000 game was fun and exciting.
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Unread 01-13-2004, 07:57 PM
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Re: FYI: Team Update #1 is posted.

Back to the drawing board thanks FIRST. Or maybe not
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Unread 01-13-2004, 08:06 PM
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Re: FYI: Team Update #1 is posted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd Derbyshire
Back to the drawing board thanks FIRST. Or maybe not
Ya know, a wise man once told me:
"Well John, you know what drawing boards are for? Going back to them."

It's day 4 not week 4, and I'm not crying for you.
Besides, if you're the "strategy big-boss man" you claim to be... this should be only the most minor of setbacks.


So yes: Thank you FIRST for making an important rule clarification, that will help make this game play better, and this season a positive experience for all.
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Unread 01-13-2004, 08:41 PM
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Re: FYI: Team Update #1 is posted.

I am very glad they added the rule on being able to block only one chute. Since this is human-layer dependent with the ball scoring, it would require 2 robots to just sit there blocking both chutes which will give everybody a bad score. At the same time, if they hadn't added this and we had some teams blocking 2 chutes, we would have a "fight". It would have to be legal as well, because you really can't do much else except climb the bar, what's a 2x ball to you if you have no balls in the goal? Teams would literally start ramming other teams to get them out of their chutes, I am very glad they have added this. I think this will keep most teams from wanting to block chutes now, meaning more action on the main focus of the game... making this game even more fun. Great job on FIRSTs end, I really like it.
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Unread 01-13-2004, 08:51 PM
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Re: FYI: Team Update #1 is posted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JVN
Ya know, a wise man once told me:
"Well John, you know what drawing boards are for? Going back to them."

It's day 4 not week 4, and I'm not crying for you.
Besides, if you're the "strategy big-boss man" you claim to be... this should be only the most minor of setbacks.


So yes: Thank you FIRST for making an important rule clarification, that will help make this game play better, and this season a positive experience for all.
Don't worry about my strategy changes worry about adaptations and circumventions do to this rule. What exactly do they consider blocking a ball chute it can be anything from an inch of the ball chute to 13inches to have a ball being permissable to the chute and that is it. Also what is the penalty for this foul? Get five green flags? Back off three feet?


Oh and for those of you thinking that we (88) are going all defense well you will have to find out and don't worry for those that won't be going to Jersey I will give you a prelude of what you will see during the offseasons if you are going to BAE with my college team (1307). Rookies by number Veterans at heart.
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