OCCRA
Go to Post Making a part look pretty even after it is functionaly done can be a very good thing, espically when the part gets cut from the bot and you get to keep it as a trophey. Take pride in your work. - Andy A. [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > ChiefDelphi.com Website > Extra Discussion
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Reply
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 06-15-2017, 04:42 PM
Jon Stratis's Avatar
Jon Stratis Jon Stratis is offline
Mentor, LRI, MN RPC
FRC #2177 (The Robettes)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 4,404
Jon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond repute
paper: FRC Growth numbers

Thread created automatically to discuss a document in CD-Media.

FRC Growth numbers by Jon Stratis
Reply With Quote
  #2   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 06-15-2017, 04:45 PM
Jon Stratis's Avatar
Jon Stratis Jon Stratis is offline
Mentor, LRI, MN RPC
FRC #2177 (The Robettes)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 4,404
Jon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond repute
Re: paper: FRC Growth numbers

This little project grew out of a seemingly simple question from Andrew:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber View Post
Let me preface this with the statement of "I am not trying to pick a fight about this or start a debate.".

What impact do you believe reaching the effective limit of your regional space has had on growth over the years?

Noticing trends in MI prior to FIM District the growth appeared to be plateauing at a little over 1/2 regional capacity (I'm ball parking here) And MN seems to be plateauing a little higher (likely fewer double plays? I recall MI was fairly heavy on them during the 05-08 period)

I'm mostly asking this to see if Field of Dreams lied to me or if you build it they will come.


Another point I'd be curious to look at is if dense or sparse growth results in more sustainable teams. Have you done any investigation on that? You allude to rural schools being harder to maintain teams and it jives intuitively but I'm curious if you've done any digging into data.


But my final question - For the 40 teams that failed, does MN FIRST do any sort of exit interview to determine cause of failure? (IE, is "loss of rookie grants" a theory or was it a cited cause? What other causes have you found?) IMHO this is where HQ is really disappointing me, they should know why teams fail but, to my knowledge, they have no data collection here.
Over the past few years, I've seen a bunch of people (not just Andrew!) hold Michigan up as an example of "Districts = more teams", or as Andrew put it, "If you build it, they will come". So, time to stop picking on Andrew

I wanted to see how growth in all of the districts was happening, and have some actual numbers to back it up with instead of my general impression. So this spreadsheet was born. It gave me an excuse to get into the TBA API (the FRC Event API, unfortunately, doesn't have the full history available, as far as I know. Just the past couple of years).

Once that was done, it was just a bunch of Excel skills and formulas to datamine everything. What we ended up with are (if you don't want to download the spreadsheet or wait for the bazillion formulas to calculate) a bunch of graphs. The few I picked out to include below:

- All District growth. Thus far, Michigan seems like a real outlier. Some of the others have continued to grow at their pre-district rate, while others have plateaued or even shrunk a little. None of the other districts have seen the sort of explosive growth that Michigan has.

- An detailed view of MAR, as it's the second-oldest district, which should give us plenty of pre- and post-district conversion data

- Florida. There's a huge spike in 2011/2012, why?

- Minnesota. Because, well... How could I resist?


So, the data is here for people to look at and speculate on. Personally, my big question is... what drives growth in FRC? Going through the various graphs, you'll see some sudden growth spikes, and other places where growth dips negative. Is it from the creation of new events? The availability of new funding? A change in the competition itself (introduction of 3v3, districts, split champs, etc)?

My second question is... is there a natural plateau of FRC teams within a given area? If so, what is the driver behind that - competition availablity, demographics, local economy, something else? I doubt we'll ever get 100% penetration (major sports don't even have 100% penetration), but is there a percentage we should be aiming for?
__________________
2007 - Present: Mentor, 2177 The Robettes
LRI: North Star 2012-2016; Lake Superior 2013-2014; MN State Tournament 2013-2014, 2016-2017; Galileo 2016; Iowa 2017; Tesla 2017
2015: North Star Regional Volunteer of the Year
2016: Lake Superior WFFA

Last edited by Jon Stratis : 06-15-2017 at 09:00 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #3   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 06-15-2017, 05:31 PM
Andrew Schreiber Andrew Schreiber is offline
User
no team
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Misplaced Michigander
Posts: 4,485
Andrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond repute
Re: paper: FRC Growth numbers

FL was a huge spike in 2011/2012 due to JCP grants. I believe I've had a LOT of comments about the JCP grants on here and don't need to rehash why I believe large cash rookie grants are counterproductive to FRC goals in the long term.


I was more theorizing on the impact that "play slots" had on team growth. My gut feel would be to take this data as a function of "slots" in the state but that breaks horribly in regions like NE where a state is what would constitute a county in other regions (I'm looking at you Rhode Island). Any chance of adding a new line to each graph representing "number of plays in state". Downside, might require a second scale on the vertical axis though.

I never said a whole lot about growth because I'd run numbers and found growth was way too complicated to predict and had way more going into it than "if (districts) growth = 2*growth;" Plus, why do you think I asked it as a "seemingly simple question"? I KNEW it quickly grew into a project, wanted to data, and wanted to see who I could convince to do it for me

I'll have to take a bit to digest this info. Thanks.
__________________




.
Reply With Quote
  #4   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 06-15-2017, 05:51 PM
Jon Stratis's Avatar
Jon Stratis Jon Stratis is offline
Mentor, LRI, MN RPC
FRC #2177 (The Robettes)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 4,404
Jon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond repute
Re: paper: FRC Growth numbers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber View Post
FL was a huge spike in 2011/2012 due to JCP grants. I believe I've had a LOT of comments about the JCP grants on here and don't need to rehash why I believe large cash rookie grants are counterproductive to FRC goals in the long term.


I was more theorizing on the impact that "play slots" had on team growth. My gut feel would be to take this data as a function of "slots" in the state but that breaks horribly in regions like NE where a state is what would constitute a county in other regions (I'm looking at you Rhode Island). Any chance of adding a new line to each graph representing "number of plays in state". Downside, might require a second scale on the vertical axis though.

I never said a whole lot about growth because I'd run numbers and found growth was way too complicated to predict and had way more going into it than "if (districts) growth = 2*growth;" Plus, why do you think I asked it as a "seemingly simple question"? I KNEW it quickly grew into a project, wanted to data, and wanted to see who I could convince to do it for me

I'll have to take a bit to digest this info. Thanks.
There are a number of problems when considering number of plays available to teams. For example, until this past year, many (most?) Western Wisconsin teams considered the Minneapolis events their "home" event, as they were closer than the event in Milwaukee. You almost need to avoid splitting it up by state, and instead create a list of every team's closest event. That would let you look at the "local carrying capacity" of each event. That's probably realistic to do for a single year (the TBA API provides Latitude and Longitude for teams and events), but growing that out historically would be complicated. You also have to consider event capacity - I know some events that are still running under their total capacity, yet there's no way to pull that capacity number to get accurate results.

Besides, if its just a question of filling capacity at the events, then that would imply that adding an event anywhere would cause teams to pop up in that area. I think lack of plays could dampen the number of teams in an area, but the true limit of penetration is caused by other factors.
__________________
2007 - Present: Mentor, 2177 The Robettes
LRI: North Star 2012-2016; Lake Superior 2013-2014; MN State Tournament 2013-2014, 2016-2017; Galileo 2016; Iowa 2017; Tesla 2017
2015: North Star Regional Volunteer of the Year
2016: Lake Superior WFFA
Reply With Quote
  #5   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 06-15-2017, 06:48 PM
Deke's Avatar
Deke Deke is offline
Registered User
no team (No Team)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Rookie Year: 2013
Location: Michigan
Posts: 161
Deke is a glorious beacon of lightDeke is a glorious beacon of lightDeke is a glorious beacon of lightDeke is a glorious beacon of lightDeke is a glorious beacon of lightDeke is a glorious beacon of light
Re: paper: FRC Growth numbers

One of the big drivers of the FiM 2013-2014 spike:

https://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/s...d.php?t=118567

FiM is exploding due to the low cost structure and the grants available. People will play if they don't have to pay.
Reply With Quote
  #6   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 06-15-2017, 08:09 PM
Andrew Schreiber Andrew Schreiber is offline
User
no team
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Misplaced Michigander
Posts: 4,485
Andrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond repute
Re: paper: FRC Growth numbers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Stratis View Post
There are a number of problems when considering number of plays available to teams. For example, until this past year, many (most?) Western Wisconsin teams considered the Minneapolis events their "home" event, as they were closer than the event in Milwaukee. You almost need to avoid splitting it up by state, and instead create a list of every team's closest event. That would let you look at the "local carrying capacity" of each event. That's probably realistic to do for a single year (the TBA API provides Latitude and Longitude for teams and events), but growing that out historically would be complicated. You also have to consider event capacity - I know some events that are still running under their total capacity, yet there's no way to pull that capacity number to get accurate results.

Besides, if its just a question of filling capacity at the events, then that would imply that adding an event anywhere would cause teams to pop up in that area. I think lack of plays could dampen the number of teams in an area, but the true limit of penetration is caused by other factors.
Hey, I didn't say it was easy... I've done studies on team travel in the past and used POSTGIS + geolocation of events based on venue address. But the issue I keep running into is, what do I measure from. Like, sure I could say "give me events under 300 miles from the centroid of teams in this state" but is that a useful metric? Would it be better to cluster teams into events and see which regions are over capacity? I really don't know, geo stuff is hard.
__________________




.
Reply With Quote
  #7   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 06-15-2017, 08:43 PM
n3rdchik n3rdchik is offline
Registered User
FRC #1502
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Chelsea, Michigan
Posts: 28
n3rdchik has much to be proud ofn3rdchik has much to be proud ofn3rdchik has much to be proud ofn3rdchik has much to be proud ofn3rdchik has much to be proud ofn3rdchik has much to be proud ofn3rdchik has much to be proud ofn3rdchik has much to be proud ofn3rdchik has much to be proud ofn3rdchik has much to be proud of
Re: paper: FRC Growth numbers

Thanks so much! Now if you can do this for FTC.... (lol!)

The growth numbers are extremely helpful to our pitches!
__________________
Eat, Sleep, Robots!
~Marka
Lead Mentor for FTC #11617 - Chelsea Glitch, FTC #11618 - Chelsea Gremlins, FTC #11729 - Chelsea Crash
And Mama to a FRC'er, FTC'er and mini-Mentor-and-FLLjr'er
Reply With Quote
  #8   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 06-15-2017, 11:10 PM
cadandcookies's Avatar
cadandcookies cadandcookies is offline
Director of Programs, GOFIRST
AKA: Nick Aarestad
FTC #9205 (The Iron Maidens)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Rookie Year: 2009
Location: Minnesnowta
Posts: 1,674
cadandcookies has a reputation beyond reputecadandcookies has a reputation beyond reputecadandcookies has a reputation beyond reputecadandcookies has a reputation beyond reputecadandcookies has a reputation beyond reputecadandcookies has a reputation beyond reputecadandcookies has a reputation beyond reputecadandcookies has a reputation beyond reputecadandcookies has a reputation beyond reputecadandcookies has a reputation beyond reputecadandcookies has a reputation beyond repute
Re: paper: FRC Growth numbers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Stratis View Post
My second question is... is there a natural plateau of FRC teams within a given area? If so, what is the driver behind that - competition availablity, demographics, local economy, something else? I doubt we'll ever get 100% penetration (major sports don't even have 100% penetration), but is there a percentage we should be aiming for?
The following are general musings and not facts.

It would make sense that there would be a plateau-- one of the traditional methods of modelling population growth is with a logistic function, which has this characteristic. It also generally makes sense-- growth is limited by available resources. Resources being money, people, and experience. It would make sense that different areas hit different resource caps than others.

I might also hypothesize that "value" has something to do with team growth-- in particular, Michigan has probably one of the best "values"-- between state grants and districts, participating is monetarily cheap and you get more of it, compared to any regional area or even district areas that aren't subsidized. Or perhaps Michigan is so much of an outlier that trying to generalize from there doesn't make sense.

In any case the data is quite messy. I'd imagine that there isn't quite so much a dominating factor as a number of factors that may be more or less important in different areas.
__________________

Never assume the motives of others are, to them, less noble than yours are to you. - John Perry Barlow
grabcad | twitter | github
'Snow Problem CAD Files: 2015 2016
MN FTC Field Manager, FTA, CSA, Emcee
FLL Maybe NXT Year (09-10) -> FRC 2220 (11-14) -> FTC 9205(14-?)/FRC 2667 (15-16)
VEXU UMN (2015-??)
Volunteer since 2011
2013 RCA Winner (North Star Regional) (2220)
2016 Connect Award Winner (North Super Regional and World Championship) (9205)
Reply With Quote
  #9   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 06-16-2017, 12:16 AM
Unsung FIRST Hero
Karthik Karthik is offline
Registered User
no team
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Rookie Year: 1998
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,464
Karthik has a reputation beyond reputeKarthik has a reputation beyond reputeKarthik has a reputation beyond reputeKarthik has a reputation beyond reputeKarthik has a reputation beyond reputeKarthik has a reputation beyond reputeKarthik has a reputation beyond reputeKarthik has a reputation beyond reputeKarthik has a reputation beyond reputeKarthik has a reputation beyond reputeKarthik has a reputation beyond repute
Re: paper: FRC Growth numbers

Here are the overall retention numbers (active teams / all time teams) for each region based on the posted dataset.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

You see an overall retention rate in the US of 60%, with MN, MI, & WI, leading the way with the highest retention rates for regions with at least 50 teams.
__________________
:: Karthik Kanagasabapathy ::
"Enthusiasm is one of the most powerful engines of success. When you do a thing, do it with all your might. Put your whole soul into it. Stamp it with your own personality. Be active, be energetic, be enthusiastic and faithful and you will accomplish your object. Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm" -- R.W. Emerson
My TEDx Talk - The Subtle Secrets of Success
Reply With Quote
  #10   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 06-16-2017, 09:34 AM
Jon Stratis's Avatar
Jon Stratis Jon Stratis is offline
Mentor, LRI, MN RPC
FRC #2177 (The Robettes)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 4,404
Jon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond repute
Re: paper: FRC Growth numbers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deke View Post
One of the big drivers of the FiM 2013-2014 spike:

https://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/s...d.php?t=118567

FiM is exploding due to the low cost structure and the grants available. People will play if they don't have to pay.
Correction, the cost structure is actually not low. The average cost per team in Michigan is actually higher than in regionals. The grants that are available there are what really drive the affordability of the program. Of course it's more affordable for the individual teams when you have the state government chipping in to help cover the costs!
__________________
2007 - Present: Mentor, 2177 The Robettes
LRI: North Star 2012-2016; Lake Superior 2013-2014; MN State Tournament 2013-2014, 2016-2017; Galileo 2016; Iowa 2017; Tesla 2017
2015: North Star Regional Volunteer of the Year
2016: Lake Superior WFFA
Reply With Quote
  #11   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 06-16-2017, 09:37 AM
Whatever Whatever is offline
Registered User
FRC #2502
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: MN
Posts: 159
Whatever has a reputation beyond reputeWhatever has a reputation beyond reputeWhatever has a reputation beyond reputeWhatever has a reputation beyond reputeWhatever has a reputation beyond reputeWhatever has a reputation beyond reputeWhatever has a reputation beyond reputeWhatever has a reputation beyond reputeWhatever has a reputation beyond reputeWhatever has a reputation beyond reputeWhatever has a reputation beyond repute
Re: paper: FRC Growth numbers

I kind of question using the metric of total teams to look at growth. I would prefer total plays. At some point it seems like the growth of an area comes from teams moving from attending one event to attending two events. Israel and Ontario didn't really add a lot of teams this year but I bet they added a lot of plays.
Reply With Quote
  #12   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 06-16-2017, 09:55 AM
Jon Stratis's Avatar
Jon Stratis Jon Stratis is offline
Mentor, LRI, MN RPC
FRC #2177 (The Robettes)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 4,404
Jon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond repute
Re: paper: FRC Growth numbers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whatever View Post
I kind of question using the metric of total teams to look at growth. I would prefer total plays. At some point it seems like the growth of an area comes from teams moving from attending one event to attending two events. Israel and Ontario didn't really add a lot of teams this year but I bet they added a lot of plays.
Do additional plays for a team increase the number of people exposed to the program? Number of plays and program growth are two separate metrics that measure different things. Increasing growth increases exposure and inspires more people. Increasing plays affects the experience for the same number of people as before. Sure, there's an argument to be made as to the importance of both cases, but frankly the argument for number of plays is so exhausted on here it's not even funny any more. There hasn't been much discussion on program growth, though, other than the annual thread on registration numbers, which doesn't really look at long term trends for different geographic areas.
__________________
2007 - Present: Mentor, 2177 The Robettes
LRI: North Star 2012-2016; Lake Superior 2013-2014; MN State Tournament 2013-2014, 2016-2017; Galileo 2016; Iowa 2017; Tesla 2017
2015: North Star Regional Volunteer of the Year
2016: Lake Superior WFFA
Reply With Quote
  #13   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 06-16-2017, 10:14 AM
Akash Rastogi's Avatar
Akash Rastogi Akash Rastogi is offline
Head Coach - Ethel Walker School
AKA: Porkchop Sandwiches
FRC #5686 (Wirecats)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Manchester, Connecticut
Posts: 7,202
Akash Rastogi has a reputation beyond reputeAkash Rastogi has a reputation beyond reputeAkash Rastogi has a reputation beyond reputeAkash Rastogi has a reputation beyond reputeAkash Rastogi has a reputation beyond reputeAkash Rastogi has a reputation beyond reputeAkash Rastogi has a reputation beyond reputeAkash Rastogi has a reputation beyond reputeAkash Rastogi has a reputation beyond reputeAkash Rastogi has a reputation beyond reputeAkash Rastogi has a reputation beyond repute
Re: paper: FRC Growth numbers

Jon, thanks for these metrics.

Just wondering - does MN conduct any survey regarding teams reporting their annual budgets and/or number of sponsors?

I'm wondering if there's an easy way to find out if the state grants and sponsors are nearing a saturation point if teams can self-report trends in their annual budgets or anything like that.

Any other states/districts try something like this? Can resource saturation be measured in other ways? Mostly in relation to areas of high team density?
__________________
Jim Zondag is my spirit animal.

['18-'xx]: Lead Mentor FRC 5686
['17-'17]: Mentor FRC 2170
['16-'16]: Floating Mentor FRC 228
['13-'14]: Floating Mentor FRC 11/FRC 2495
['11-'13]: Founding Mentor FRC 3929 - 2012 World Championship Rookie Inspiration Award
['07-'10]: Student/Captain FRC 11 - MORT
['08-'12]: Founder - EWCP (OG)
Reply With Quote
  #14   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 06-16-2017, 10:28 AM
cadandcookies's Avatar
cadandcookies cadandcookies is offline
Director of Programs, GOFIRST
AKA: Nick Aarestad
FTC #9205 (The Iron Maidens)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Rookie Year: 2009
Location: Minnesnowta
Posts: 1,674
cadandcookies has a reputation beyond reputecadandcookies has a reputation beyond reputecadandcookies has a reputation beyond reputecadandcookies has a reputation beyond reputecadandcookies has a reputation beyond reputecadandcookies has a reputation beyond reputecadandcookies has a reputation beyond reputecadandcookies has a reputation beyond reputecadandcookies has a reputation beyond reputecadandcookies has a reputation beyond reputecadandcookies has a reputation beyond repute
Re: paper: FRC Growth numbers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Akash Rastogi View Post
Just wondering - does MN conduct any survey regarding teams reporting their annual budgets and/or number of sponsors?
A rough number of sponsors may be found by breaking down the "Team Name" field. Obviously there are issues with this, but I think it might be the closest approximation we can get without an actual survey.

With regards to play count, I might agree that there are some issues with it as a metric, but I also think there's an argument that the overall quality of an area's FRC community and the experience of students and mentors on those teams is not directly coupled to how many teams there are in that area. I don't really have a good metric for that, but I think the right concept is there with play count if you accept the underlying assumption that more FIRST is a good thing for participants and teams.
__________________

Never assume the motives of others are, to them, less noble than yours are to you. - John Perry Barlow
grabcad | twitter | github
'Snow Problem CAD Files: 2015 2016
MN FTC Field Manager, FTA, CSA, Emcee
FLL Maybe NXT Year (09-10) -> FRC 2220 (11-14) -> FTC 9205(14-?)/FRC 2667 (15-16)
VEXU UMN (2015-??)
Volunteer since 2011
2013 RCA Winner (North Star Regional) (2220)
2016 Connect Award Winner (North Super Regional and World Championship) (9205)
Reply With Quote
  #15   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 06-16-2017, 10:30 AM
Jon Stratis's Avatar
Jon Stratis Jon Stratis is offline
Mentor, LRI, MN RPC
FRC #2177 (The Robettes)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 4,404
Jon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond repute
Re: paper: FRC Growth numbers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Akash Rastogi View Post
Jon, thanks for these metrics.

Just wondering - does MN conduct any survey regarding teams reporting their annual budgets and/or number of sponsors?

I'm wondering if there's an easy way to find out if the state grants and sponsors are nearing a saturation point if teams can self-report trends in their annual budgets or anything like that.

Any other states/districts try something like this? Can resource saturation be measured in other ways? Mostly in relation to areas of high team density?
We do have an annual end of year survey, it closed earlier this week actually. Some of the questions we asked on it were centered on budget (total team budget, robot budget, travel budget, etc), but I don't think we asked about number of sponsors. We've only just started looking at the results, so I can't really say any more than that. One of the problems you have with these sorts of optional surveys is your response percent - how do you extrapolate to cover those that don't respond? Are some questions going to show inaccurate results because the demographics of those that responded are different from those that did not? How many responses do you need before you can say the results are accurate enough?

And since you mention "high team density"... I think that's not just a measure of teams per mile, but rather a measure of teams per population for a given area. Major cities can support a larger number of teams per mile than small rural towns.
__________________
2007 - Present: Mentor, 2177 The Robettes
LRI: North Star 2012-2016; Lake Superior 2013-2014; MN State Tournament 2013-2014, 2016-2017; Galileo 2016; Iowa 2017; Tesla 2017
2015: North Star Regional Volunteer of the Year
2016: Lake Superior WFFA
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:21 AM.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi