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  #196   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-06-2012, 06:13 AM
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Re: You Cannot Graciously Accept

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Originally Posted by Basel A View Post
Irregardless
Twitch... Twitch... shudder...

Though admittedly my first thought in seeing this thread come back was that "No one ever claimed engineers are good at English." I certainly wish we could break that stereotype, but the fact of the matter is that 90% of engineers hate writing and aren't good at it.

And another thought is that many of the kids that get up there are so nervous that I'm impressed they can manage any form of correct or incorrect English. Its hard to be in front of a crowd that large, especially when your team's entire destiny may be on the line!

But good points all around. We should be doing everything we can to make a good impression on all those that come for the finals of the event. Figure out a way to train your students to use English good! (::sarcasm:
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Unread 03-06-2012, 06:27 AM
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Re: You Cannot Graciously Accept

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Originally Posted by nitneylion452 View Post
How about "The great team of XXXX abstains, courteously."

That's a reference from something, but I don't remember what . The original is "The great state of Virginia abstains, courteously."
That is a reference from the movie/musical "1776".

The original is "The great state of New York abstains, courteously."

There is a punch line in the 3rd act about how everyone in the New York legislature talks over each other and yealls so that the don't listen to each other and can't accomplish anything so the delegation never gets any direction.
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Unread 03-06-2012, 09:04 AM
Bill_B Bill_B is offline
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Re: You Cannot Graciously Accept

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Originally Posted by Kims Robot View Post
Twitch... Twitch... shudder...

Though admittedly my first thought in seeing this thread come back was that "No one ever claimed engineers are good at English." I certainly wish we could break that stereotype, but the fact of the matter is that 90% of engineers hate writing and aren't good at it.
Woodie Flowers notwithstanding - Gracious professionalism instead of Professional Grace? Save weight and ditch the extra syllables. Give the MPAA a run for its money by redefining PG-13.

Unfortunately the converse is not true. Awkwardness with English and grammar does not indicate a propensity for engineering or science. Like, 'fer shur, dude!
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Unread 03-06-2012, 09:37 AM
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Re: You Cannot Graciously Accept

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Originally Posted by Zach O View Post
The grammar errors have never made a difference to me, since these improper terms have become the standard in FIRST. Teams "graciously accept" other teams, and alliance selection students say "we" would like to select, as opposed to "I" would like to select (I say "we" because although I am selecting a team, I am representing the whole team and the selections of the whole team, not myself). In fact, it's always weird to me when someone switches from the usual (unspoken but agreed upon) vernacular for FIRST robotics alliance selections.

I think as long as people are acting professional on the field during selections, it doesn't matter what adjective you use to accept.
Ur rite. It's jst lk txtN. evry1 dz it, so it's fyn. It's nt lk Ull 4gt h2 typ lk a norml pRsN, amirite?*

The point is that using poor grammar is habit forming, and thus a bad idea. If you don't try and use proper grammar all the time, you're going to get sloppy and sound foolish.

If the "and" I bolded up there sounds normal to you, you've already succumbed to an extraordinarily common mangling of English that still doesn't make sense to me.

So, back on point, "graciously accept" or, heaven forfend, "graciously invite" is a ridiculously bad usage. In the former you sound like a high-society blowhard that's kindly doing a team a favor by accepting their invitation. In the latter, you sound like a high-society blowhard that's doing a team a huge favor by oh so kindly stooping to lift them up out of their poverty and offer them the enormous opportunity of working with your team. This is seriously what you sound like to any person that speaks proper English.

Yes, I know, "but we all know what it means". Which is true for someone in the FIRST culture. In case you haven't noticed, we're trying to change the rest of the culture to bring more people in. Sounding like a high-society snob is not conducive to this.

And I pity the kids that this becomes ingrained in. I shudder to imagine them "graciously accepting" a college's admission acceptance. "Graciously inviting" friends, parents, or their teachers to their graduations. "Graciously accepting" job interview offers. Or client invites. Or bid opportunities. Or proposals. Hopefully not the Pulitzer Prize, though. I fear that they will wander through life never understanding why people around them give them funny looks every time the word "gracious" passes their lips.


*Yes, I found an english to text translator for this.
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Unread 03-06-2012, 09:37 AM
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Re: You Cannot Graciously Accept

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Originally Posted by Basel A View Post
Irregardless of people's feelings on the matter, for all intensive purposes it doesn't really matter what you say, as long as you're accepting without taking anything for granite, right?

"It sounds right" and "It's what everybody else says" doesn't mean it is correct or even makes sense.
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Unread 03-06-2012, 01:30 PM
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Re: You Cannot Graciously Accept

"Team XXXX regretfully accepts."

That's what I want to hear. Or, in the words of Brendan McLeod, who has now passed on this tradition to me, "Team 1058 accepts graciously." It gets a reaction from the crowd and is supposedly more correct than "graciously accepts."
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Unread 03-06-2012, 01:57 PM
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Re: You Cannot Graciously Accept

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flak-Bait View Post
"Team XXXX regretfully accepts."

That's what I want to hear. Or, in the words of Brendan McLeod, who has now passed on this tradition to me, "Team 1058 accepts graciously." It gets a reaction from the crowd and is supposedly more correct than "graciously accepts."
It's not the order that matters, it's using the word at all.

Gracious: 1. Characterized by kindness and warm courtesy. 2. Characterized by tact and propriety.

Would you say: "Team 1058 accepts with much tact and propriety"? Exactly how tactful is it to walk around declaring how very tactful you are? How is it particularly gracious to declare just how very gracious you are?

It's the same problem you'd have if you went around telling everyone you knew about how great you are because you're so humble. It's a contradiction in terms. The whole point of this nigh unto 5 year old thread is that if you declare you're "graciously accepting" you're most definitely not being very gracious.
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Unread 03-06-2012, 02:14 PM
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Re: You Cannot Graciously Accept

Holy thread revival batman!

I am still waiting for somebody to say
"TONIGHT, WE DINE ON EINSTEIN!"
**and the crowd goes wild**
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Unread 03-06-2012, 02:25 PM
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Re: You Cannot Graciously Accept

I'm sure somewhere in this long thread someone suggested this, but here goes...

Wouldn't it be better to say " Team xxxx accepts your gracious offer to join your alliance." This compliments the asking team for being gracious, and provides a humble stance for your own team in that it says 'we are not worthy to join you, but your graciousness has welcomed accepted us"
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Unread 03-06-2012, 05:35 PM
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Re: You Cannot Graciously Accept

inconceivable, or you bet your bippie, or surely you jest, or Ill take FRC alliances for 500 Alex, or come on down, or that would be the cats meow, or wait what who me
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Unread 03-06-2012, 05:41 PM
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Re: You Cannot Graciously Accept

Maybe we could say we gratefully accept?

-Duke
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Unread 03-06-2012, 05:48 PM
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Re: You Cannot Graciously Accept

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Originally Posted by Kims Robot View Post
And another thought is that many of the kids that get up there are so nervous that I'm impressed they can manage any form of correct or incorrect English. Its hard to be in front of a crowd that large, especially when your team's entire destiny may be on the line!
Cue Libby Kamen making fun of me botching my own team number not once, but twice, during alliance selection at the 2007 VCU regional.
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Unread 03-06-2012, 05:53 PM
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Re: You Cannot Graciously Accept

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Originally Posted by Conor Ryan View Post
Holy thread revival batman!

I am still waiting for somebody to say
"TONIGHT, WE DINE ON EINSTEIN!"
**and the crowd goes wild**
On this note, "Join me, and together, we can rule the court as alliance captain and alliance member" as an invitation.

Obviously based on this quote "Join me, and together, we can rule the galaxy as father and son!"
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Unread 03-06-2012, 09:00 PM
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Re: You Cannot Graciously Accept

"I take it the odds are stacked against us and the situation is grim."

...you could say that...

"You know, if Spock were here, he'd say I was an irrational illogical human being for taking on a mission like that...sounds like fun!"

Needless to say, they wouldn't let me do it. (Kudos to whomever gets the reference.)
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Unread 03-06-2012, 09:22 PM
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Re: You Cannot Graciously Accept

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Originally Posted by nitneylion452 View Post
I do have an issue with the term "irregardless." If you break it down, you have "ir," "regard," and "less." Ir is a prefix which indicates negation, regard is the base, and less is a suffix which also indicates negation or lack of. So, putting that all together, we get "not without regard" or more simply, "with regard." It makes no sense to say "irregardless" to mean "without regard."


Heil Webster!

[/rant]
No wonder you feel contempt for the word, you are looking at it wrong. "Ir" does not modify "regardless", it modifies "respective", as in "irrespective". Irregardless is a portmanteau formed from these two commonly accepted words.
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