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  #121   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-16-2018, 12:29 AM
Marcus Q Marcus Q is offline
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Re: FRC Blog - 2019 Motor Controllers and MXP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cog View Post
Has anyone asked what the KV rating of these motors is? It'd be very helpful if we could compare the NEO to electric skateboard motors.

Unless KV isn't a useful metric for this?

My general understanding is that more KV = less torque

I'm not entirely sure about the underlying principle of how KV and Torque are linked, so I could definitely be wrong.
I'd recommend avoiding the more KV = less torque thing in FRC. The reason people use it in skateboard and drone stuff is due to having limited or no options for gearing. They essentially use KV as a sort of a "electrical gearing" instead. It's like saying the CIM has more torque than a 775 Pro and therefore it's better for climbers. While yes it's true the CIM has more torque, once their geared to equal speed a 775 pro will output slightly more torque.

Brushed motors have a KV too. This is why the 775 Pro has so much more power than the previously available 775 size motors. They essentially took the available motor and almost doubled its KV, putting out the same torque at almost double the speed. Since Power = Torque * Speed you see an almost double increase in power.

The other nice thing about gearing down a higher KV motor is you tend to get better efficiency to a point (negating the losses from the additional gearing). Eventually you spin so fast that you start to nuke bearings, explode things or get significant eddy current losses. Still spinning a motor at 35,000+ RPM is not unheard of.

I'm oversimplifying a couple of things so don't expect any of this to be 100% true always.
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Unread 11-16-2018, 08:11 PM
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Re: FRC Blog - 2019 Motor Controllers and MXP

Here's as close to a 1:1 pushing match as I can make it.

Red robot has Mini CIMs, Blue robot has NEOs!

Identical robots with identical weight and drivetrains. WCP gearboxes geared exactly the same. One motor per robot side (left & right). Full throttle on both motors with fully charged batteries tested to the same voltage before starting. Motor controllers used are Talon SRX vs Spark MAX. Motors are all installed on the same position on the gearbox.

https://youtu.be/Qh7TRv3TbR4
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Last edited by juchong : 11-17-2018 at 12:08 AM.
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  #123   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-16-2018, 08:14 PM
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Re: FRC Blog - 2019 Motor Controllers and MXP

Quote:
Originally Posted by juchong View Post
Here's as close to a 1:1 pushing match as I can make it.

Identical robots with identical weight and drivetrains. WCP gearboxes geared exactly the same. One motor per robot side (left & right). Full throttle on both motors with fully charged batteries tested to the same voltage before starting. Motor controllers used are Talon SRX vs Spark MAX. Motors are all installed on the same position on the gearbox.

https://youtu.be/Qh7TRv3TbR4
But....which is which?
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Unread 11-16-2018, 08:17 PM
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Re: FRC Blog - 2019 Motor Controllers and MXP

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Originally Posted by Andrew_L View Post
But....which is which?
Red robot has Mini CIMs, Blue robot has NEOs!
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Last edited by juchong : 11-17-2018 at 12:08 AM.
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  #125   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-16-2018, 08:17 PM
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Re: FRC Blog - 2019 Motor Controllers and MXP

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Originally Posted by juchong View Post
Red robot has CIMs, Blue robot has NEOs!
I can only get so hyped...
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  #126   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-16-2018, 08:18 PM
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Re: FRC Blog - 2019 Motor Controllers and MXP

Is the red one (CIMs) breaking traction?
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  #127   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-16-2018, 08:21 PM
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Re: FRC Blog - 2019 Motor Controllers and MXP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark McLeod View Post
Is the red one (CIMs) breaking traction?
Nope. Neither robot is breaking traction.
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Last edited by juchong : 11-16-2018 at 08:26 PM.
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  #128   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-16-2018, 08:28 PM
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Re: FRC Blog - 2019 Motor Controllers and MXP

Quote:
Originally Posted by juchong View Post
Here's as close to a 1:1 pushing match as I can make it.

Red robot has CIMs, Blue robot has NEOs!

Identical robots with identical weight and drivetrains. WCP gearboxes geared exactly the same. One motor per robot side (left & right). Full throttle on both motors with fully charged batteries tested to the same voltage before starting. Motor controllers used are Talon SRX vs Spark MAX. Motors are all installed on the same position on the gearbox.

https://youtu.be/Qh7TRv3TbR4
What is the gear ratio? What wheels are used? What do these robots weigh fully loaded?
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  #129   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-16-2018, 08:41 PM
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Re: FRC Blog - 2019 Motor Controllers and MXP

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Originally Posted by AdamHeard View Post
What is the gear ratio? What wheels are used? What do these robots weigh fully loaded?
Gearbox:


Wheels: Four 6" x 2" Colson Wheels (Link) and two 6" x 2" Omnis (Link)

Weight:
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  #130   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-16-2018, 08:50 PM
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Smile Re: FRC Blog - 2019 Motor Controllers and MXP

Thanks for conducting these tests! These motors are looking more promising every day. Teams like yours make it easier for the rest of us to make educated decisions!
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  #131   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-16-2018, 08:58 PM
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Re: FRC Blog - 2019 Motor Controllers and MXP

I'm in the shop testing things now if anyone has questions. Trying to gather stall torque numbers for a MiniCIM and NEO
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  #132   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-16-2018, 09:06 PM
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Re: FRC Blog - 2019 Motor Controllers and MXP

Any significant drive shaft temperatures after the pushing match?
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Unread 11-16-2018, 09:08 PM
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Re: FRC Blog - 2019 Motor Controllers and MXP

No. We ran them for a solid half hour afterwards and they were lukewarm.
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Unread 11-16-2018, 09:12 PM
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Re: FRC Blog - 2019 Motor Controllers and MXP

Quote:
Originally Posted by juchong View Post
I'm in the shop testing things now if anyone has questions. Trying to gather stall torque numbers for a MiniCIM and NEO
Can you drive into a wall contiuously on carpet for 60 seconds (or until battery dies) and see if the controller catches fire?
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Unread 11-16-2018, 09:14 PM
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Re: FRC Blog - 2019 Motor Controllers and MXP

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Originally Posted by AdamHeard View Post
Can you drive into a wall contiuously on carpet for 60 seconds (or until battery dies) and see if the controller catches fire?
Maybe have a fire extinguisher handy... or at least a cup of water.
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