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Unread 08-09-2018, 09:24 PM
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Re: Alpha release of Visual Studio Code for FRC C++ and Java

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Originally Posted by Thad House View Post
You can follow the instructions here

https://www.thewindowsclub.com/set-j...-in-windows-10

Youll then need to restart VS Code.

Awesome thank you for all the help.

Note:
You will not only need to restart VS Code but you will also have to make a new project. I couldn't get it to work with the current project I was working with.
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Unread 08-09-2018, 11:32 PM
tcjinaz tcjinaz is offline
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Re: Alpha release of Visual Studio Code for FRC C++ and Java

So, was there any open discussion of this, or did the powers that be just decide to change? Was it one of those "well, MS is the standard, let's go with it" things". At the pointy end of the engineering development stick, VS-C and Java are non-entities.

I'm sorry, I got steamrollered from below two years ago to move from LabView to Java by people who had no idea what they were talking about. We survived because I had resources at work I could lean on for Eclipse help (Java was easy). Granted, the deployment to the RIO mechanism had problems, but was it impossible to put GradleRIO underneath Eclipse?

I swear I'm putting a tiger team of relative rookies together to program our robots in parallel with the now VS-Code/Java "standard", and will proceed to blow the Java implementation away.

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Unread 08-09-2018, 11:53 PM
Thad House Thad House is offline
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Re: Alpha release of Visual Studio Code for FRC C++ and Java

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Originally Posted by tcjinaz View Post
So, was there any open discussion of this, or did the powers that be just decide to change? Was it one of those "well, MS is the standard, let's go with it" things". At the pointy end of the engineering development stick, VS-C and Java are non-entities.

I'm sorry, I got steamrollered from below two years ago to move from LabView to Java by people who had no idea what they were talking about. We survived because I had resources at work I could lean on for Eclipse help (Java was easy). Granted, the deployment to the RIO mechanism had problems, but was it impossible to put GradleRIO underneath Eclipse?

I swear I'm putting a tiger team of relative rookies together to program our robots in parallel with the now VS-Code/Java "standard", and will proceed to blow the Java implementation away.

Tim
There were a lot of complaints people had about eclipse. It was a very unforgiving setup that was incredibly difficult to develop for, and left very little room for expansion. Plus with the amount of teams using GradleRIO this season, we knew that it would start getting too large of a marketshare for most teams to be using an unofficial build season. That was much of what spurred the switch to GradleRIO.

Integrating GradleRIO Java into eclipse likely wouldn't have been too bad, but still would have had the issue with eclipse plugin development being very unforgiving. However, C++ would have been insanely more difficult. With VS Code, both of these things were easy to get implemented, and building the plugins were very easy, especially relative to what we had for Eclipse.

Now the big change is really the switch from ant as the build and deploy setup to GradleRIO. You can completely do command line builds, and there is nothing in GradleRIO that is dependent on VS Code. If you want to develop in any IDE there is nothing stopping that. All the VS Code plugins do is just run `./gradlew deploy`, so its exactly what you would get from deploying from the command line.

Nothing is changing because of this in WPILib itself, and there are many less hacks in this setup then were in the eclipse setup. Its been a net win for both users and developers in a lot of ways, and it will allow us to help teams easier as well.
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Unread 08-09-2018, 11:57 PM
Thad House Thad House is offline
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Re: Alpha release of Visual Studio Code for FRC C++ and Java

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Originally Posted by tomy View Post
Awesome thank you for all the help.

Note:
You will not only need to restart VS Code but you will also have to make a new project. I couldn't get it to work with the current project I was working with.
The issue you were likely seeing is the first time you open a VS Code project on your system, it takes about a minute to download and configure everything. This will be solved for the season, but I bet if you go back and open the original project you created it would work now.
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Unread 08-10-2018, 12:33 AM
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Re: Alpha release of Visual Studio Code for FRC C++ and Java

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Originally Posted by tcjinaz View Post
So, was there any open discussion of this, or did the powers that be just decide to change?
https://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/s....php?p=1759892

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Unread 08-10-2018, 06:32 AM
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Re: Alpha release of Visual Studio Code for FRC C++ and Java

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Originally Posted by tcjinaz View Post
So, was there any open discussion of this, or did the powers that be just decide to change? Was it one of those "well, MS is the standard, let's go with it" things".
The build environent is fully supported on Linux now as well, and there are open-source versions of the driver station that can be used for development. Additionally, the VS-code selection was only influincing the editing environment. All project setup and build operations can be done command line if desired. It's even possible to set up an eclipse project around it if you rely upon eclipse-specific features for your build.

I'll admit I didn't see a community-sourced discussion on this much, although there are lots of channels (gitter/github issues/discord) I don't keep track of. Still, since the WPILib development team is mostly volunteers/students, I'm all for them honing the development environment toward something modern, easier to maintain, and easier to use. As long as there is a simple, straightforward way to generate the template project which builds & deploys & debugs consistantly to the robot for Java & C++, everything else should be a nice-to-have.

One of our software mentors did express dislike for the backward-compatibility breaking nature of this change. I agree, it is forking some work onto teams which like to leverage content year over year. We are one of those teams. We have had to do work over the summer to re-integrate our custom deployment content. The open-alpha is what is enabling us to be able to start developing 2019 robot code right after kickoff, rather than porting environemnts.
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Unread 08-10-2018, 10:48 AM
Thad House Thad House is offline
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Re: Alpha release of Visual Studio Code for FRC C++ and Java

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Originally Posted by gerthworm View Post
One of our software mentors did express dislike for the backward-compatibility breaking nature of this change. I agree, it is forking some work onto teams which like to leverage content year over year. We are one of those teams. We have had to do work over the summer to re-integrate our custom deployment content. The open-alpha is what is enabling us to be able to start developing 2019 robot code right after kickoff, rather than porting environemnts.

One nice thing about GradleRIO is that custom deployment stuff is EXPONENTIALLY easier then what was possible with the Ant setup. The documentation is way better, we're using fairly standard things, and its something thats very commonly used in industry, especially now. Technically, there is even a way to call your existing Ant scripts from gradle, but I definitely do NOT recommend doing this, and instead rebuilding what you need natively in gradle.

One other thing to note is our primary target is actually not teams with CD presence. There are ~2200 teams that use WPILib, and I would suspect at least 1500 of those just use a standard build setup with nothing custom. They want things to just work, and when things don't easy ways of getting support. Those are the first teams we think about when developing new ideas, because they're likely the ones without means to troubleshoot issues themselves or with mentor assistance. With the VS Code switch, this becomes a much easier proposition, because there just is less to go wrong. This alpha has shown us a few things we need to get better, but most of everything is the initial setup, and we are working on solutions to those issues.
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Unread 08-10-2018, 10:55 AM
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Re: Alpha release of Visual Studio Code for FRC C++ and Java

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One other thing to note is our primary target is actually not teams with CD presence.
So that's a hard 'no' on ROS support then?
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Unread 08-10-2018, 11:08 AM
Thad House Thad House is offline
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Re: Alpha release of Visual Studio Code for FRC C++ and Java

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So that's a hard 'no' on ROS support then?
No, but we might be convinced on emacs support
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Unread 08-10-2018, 11:27 AM
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Re: Alpha release of Visual Studio Code for FRC C++ and Java

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No, but we might be convinced on emacs support
How I imagine most Emac's users:
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Unread 08-10-2018, 02:06 PM
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Re: Alpha release of Visual Studio Code for FRC C++ and Java

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One nice thing about GradleRIO is that custom deployment stuff is EXPONENTIALLY easier then what was possible with the Ant setup.
Amen to this. We started knowing basically nothing about Ant, and a week of work later arrived at a solution which involved cloning the wpilib main deploy ant script into the repo and modifying it. Functional, but not something to be proud of.

We started gradle with a similar expertise level. Two hours later, deploying code and website resources in one command with no clone-and-own. boom-schackalacka.
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Unread 08-10-2018, 02:28 PM
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Re: Alpha release of Visual Studio Code for FRC C++ and Java

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No, but we might be convinced on emacs support
Emacs is a solid operating system; the only thing it lacks is a decent text editor.
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Unread 08-10-2018, 08:55 PM
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Re: Alpha release of Visual Studio Code for FRC C++ and Java

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No, but we might be convinced on emacs support
Hey, respect ancient & honored history. emacs is based on editors written in the 60's (TECO).

Much as I love it, I wouldn't ever consider dragging it into FRC.
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Unread 08-10-2018, 09:02 PM
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Re: Alpha release of Visual Studio Code for FRC C++ and Java

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No, but we might be convinced on emacs support

why would anyone want that when vim exists
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Unread 08-10-2018, 09:12 PM
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Re: Alpha release of Visual Studio Code for FRC C++ and Java

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Ah, yeah, "Looks like the secret is out"
And yes, I saw it in April, when it sounded like any debate was done.

BTW, thanks for gradleRIO. Deployment has been a bogeyman for us forever.

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