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Unread 08-07-2018, 06:20 PM
backflippingcat backflippingcat is offline
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Sustaining a Team

Apologies in advance for extremely long post that follows (and if I've posted it in the wrong forum!), I’ve attempted a summary at the bottom

A little context/background before getting into my question— my team was started last year by myself and another student currently on the team. The two of us used to be on an FLL team, and after aging out, wanted to continue in FIRST by starting an FRC team. After not getting the school and teacher support we’d hoped to have, we shifted our focus to be an independent team, hence our lack of a head coach or sustainable mentor network. My team is also very small, completely student-run, and are all current rising juniors (we’re working on the recruiting…). And while we’ve had a decent rookie season this year, my main concern is with what will happen to the team after the we graduate. For example, many things usually done by a coach are managed by us. Understandably, that isn’t what the majority of people hope to be involved with after joining a robotics team, so I’m not sure what will happen to those tasks after me and the 1-2 other students involved in these areas graduate. Additionally, our team is very short on mentors (read: one technical mentor), any others who are involved are parents who won’t be taking charge of the team after their children graduate. This brings up another concern of mine: the shortage of technical experience and other things that a mentor usually brings to a team. Of course the more “experienced” students try to teach others, but everyone’s learning together along the way, especially as part of a newer team.

After the 2019 season, we may also no longer have a workspace, so as of right now, when the thirteen of us graduate in a few years, our team will have no workspace, mentors, coaches, guaranteed sponsors, or even team members. We have truly loved the opportunity to compete in FRC this year, and would really like our team to continue past our graduation so others can have the same experience we did, but we’re currently stuck in this strange situation.
In summary, if anyone has any opinions or advice on how you make your team sustainable, please let me know. How does a team find a dedicated coach/mentor/workspace with interest in helping the team grow long-term? If you’ve read this far, I truly appreciate your time and any thoughts or opinions you can provide. Thanks again!

Last edited by backflippingcat : 08-08-2018 at 12:57 PM. Reason: see bold text and parentheses
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Unread 08-07-2018, 07:24 PM
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Re: Sustaining a Team

Have you reached out to the senior mentor in your area, they are definitely a great resource.
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Unread 08-07-2018, 07:27 PM
backflippingcat backflippingcat is offline
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Re: Sustaining a Team

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Originally Posted by OwenD View Post
Have you reached out to the senior mentor in your area, they are definitely a great resource.
Yep, thank you for the suggestion! (he was actually one of the first people to introduce us to FRC back when we were FLL children )
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Unread 08-07-2018, 08:43 PM
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Re: Sustaining a Team

We love competing with ya'll at TRI. Even with us being in San Antonio we love to help in anyway we can... please dont be afraid to reach out to us .
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Unread 08-07-2018, 10:31 PM
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Re: Sustaining a Team

Great competing with you at Bayou, and I loved the story I heard of your team name, even though the story was apparently mangled on its way to me.

Practically every team has sustainability issues in the early years. A lot of teams make it to year five, a lot don't. While we haven't had the cards stacked against us as deeply as you appear to, here's what has gotten us through:

List all the resources the team needs to continue. Focus first on the ones which might go away next year, then on the ones which might go away the year after that, and so on. Always look for a long term solution, but be willing to settle for a short term solution if it comes up and you have other fish to fry.

Key resources, in the order they occur to me, not necessarily most important or most critical for you:
  • Money (competition fees, robot parts, tools, travel)
  • Students
  • Technical Mentors (engineers, technicians, scientists, programmers, and handy folk)
  • Business Mentors (getting sponsors and managing money)
  • "Team Mom" Mentors (travel, meals, keeping the wheels on the bus)
  • Build Space
  • Storage Space (in some cases a distinct problem from build space)
  • Tools
  • Parts & supplies (meaning enough money, plus some one who is ordering parts and supplies as needed by the team)
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Last edited by GeeTwo : 08-08-2018 at 01:31 PM. Reason: Added storage space; removed stray characters
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Unread 08-07-2018, 10:35 PM
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Re: Sustaining a Team

Let your team fold.

That sounds bad, but running a team should not be a struggle. A new team will take it's place when the need arises.

Or, make your goal to convince a school to take your number, show them what needs to be done to properly sustain a team (basically all the things you listed).

Otherwise, this sounds like a team that served it's purpose for a few students, but was never meant to be sustainable.

Many teams come and go like this. Notable example would be 2753.
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Unread 08-07-2018, 11:13 PM
backflippingcat backflippingcat is offline
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Re: Sustaining a Team

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Originally Posted by Akash Rastogi View Post

That sounds bad, but running a team should not be a struggle. A new team will take it's place when the need arises.
Just to clarify-- I definitely don't want to make it sound like keeping the team going is a burden for me or anyone else on the team. Yes, running a team is difficult and time-consuming, but we find it's well worth the time and effort if it inspires anyone that comes in contact with the program. We just happen to be in a situation where we're not sure how to best proceed, but are willing to dedicate all time and effort it takes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Akash Rastogi View Post

Or, make your goal to convince a school to take your number, show them what needs to be done to properly sustain a team (basically all the things you listed).
Tried with our school (all of our team members attend the same school but we're a community team) but the possibility is low, partially because our school already has a less competitive robotics program (not FIRST). If anyone in the area wants the team in about two years...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Akash Rastogi View Post

Otherwise, this sounds like a team that served it's purpose for a few students, but was never meant to be sustainable.
Sustainability definitely wasn't at the top of my priority list when getting the team going for this year, but it's something I believe that maybe with two years time we could potentially figure out. I just personally can't understand creating a team without the intent to continue in order to inspire students and serve the community around you. (and from someone who wasn't crazy about engineering or helping the community a couple years ago, I've learned so much) But that's just me

And of course thank you for the advice! And everyone for being understanding (I debated posting this under a throwaway, but hopefully no one views my team any differently because I eventually didn't)

Last edited by backflippingcat : 08-07-2018 at 11:36 PM. Reason: languaging
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Unread 08-08-2018, 12:04 AM
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Re: Sustaining a Team

If your team is not lead by a mentor that is willing to be the champion of the team then the future looks bleak. As with any strong organization (that is really what a FRC team is), you need someone at the helm to weather the storms.

Strong FRC teams are lead by strong mentors that have a vision on where the team will be in one, five, and 10 years. Students just don't have the skill sets nor the abilities to keep a team running at full steam.

If your team is a community team, you will need to attach to some other organization like a 4H, Scouts, etc. If your team is attached to a school, it is best if you have a staff member to take the reigns.
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Unread 08-08-2018, 11:55 AM
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Re: Sustaining a Team

Quote:
Originally Posted by backflippingcat View Post

Tried with our school (all of our team members attend the same school but we're a community team) but the possibility is low, partially because our school already has a less competitive robotics program (not FIRST). If anyone in the area wants the team in about two years...
The Granite City Gearhead have many parallels to your story. A community team with a school district, administration, and a overall community that supports VEX. Even the VEX state champs are hosted here in St Cloud. The FRC team started as a single school hosted club but after one year was dropped and picked up by the students and parents. Since then it's has been fortunate that there was always a enough student's from 2-5 area schools with a parent or two to keep it alive.

I'm starting my 4th year at coach and anyone that knows me and our team the last 3 years I been all in. I worry what will happen after my kids age out. I feel I will stay involved with First some how after they graduate but are a team leader is not responsible. I'm watching this post closely.
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Unread 08-08-2018, 11:58 AM
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Re: Sustaining a Team

Quote:
Originally Posted by backflippingcat View Post
Just to clarify-- I definitely don't want to make it sound like keeping the team going is a burden for me or anyone else on the team. Yes, running a team is difficult and time-consuming, but we find it's well worth the time and effort if it inspires anyone that comes in contact with the program. We just happen to be in a situation where we're not sure how to best proceed, but are willing to dedicate all time and effort it takes.
That's coming from the perspective of a student who will not have to run the team after you have graduated.

Unless you can find an adult mentor who will champion your cause and can gather other adults around them, the team will not be sustainable.
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Unread 08-08-2018, 12:23 PM
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Re: Sustaining a Team

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief Hedgehog View Post
Strong FRC teams are lead by strong mentors that have a vision on where the team will be in one, five, and 10 years. Students just don't have the skill sets nor the abilities to keep a team running at full steam.
I wanted to chime in on this aspect. That vision does NOT have to come from the mentors. After a few years of mentioning it to various students, our captains this year scheduled "vision meetings" over the summer. In these meetings, they've been looking at 3 areas - outreach (completed), technical (partial), and sustainability (which we start talking about next week). And in each of them they're working on developing a 7-year plan. That plan details where they think the team should be and how it should grow in the near-term, medium-term, and long-term. Between those areas, we have 40 pages written up right now. It serves as a great long-term guide for the team. Once "complete", all we need to do in future years is update them - add in new ideas, move items from one section to the other. Oh, and implement on the vision each year. Between this and some of the other documentation efforts they've been doing, I'm really excited for our future - it's laying the framework for continuous, year over year improvement.

Where the mentors come in is helping the students look long term and understand the importance. Freshmen are going to be around for 4 years, so they have an interest in the longer-term success of the team, but they aren't going to be creating the vision - they're still learning what the team is all about. It's the seniors and juniors that are really the ones that understand the team and can develop a vision for it... but they're also looking at ending their time with the team relatively soon. It's so hard for them to feel something is worthwhile if it take a bunch of time yet won't pay off for the team until after they are gone.

The mentors, especially those that plan to stick around for many years, are the ones that can both see the vision and have a vested interest in working towards it. So once a team has a long term vision, it's up to the mentors to help push it with the student leadership and help them understand how important it is. It's not necessarily about optimizing the team for the current year, it's about leaving a legacy of improvement.


For the OP... it sounds to me like you need to first identify someone that wants to keep the team going after you're gone. If there isn't anyone (a school, younger students, a mentor), then there's no point in building a sustaining structure for the team. I would focus on recruitment more than anything right now - recruiting mentors, recruiting new students, and recruiting sponsors. That's where you'll find the people that want the team to continue after you're gone, and they'll be key to helping you create the structure you need to ensure it continues. If those people just don't exist (which they may not, if there's a competing robotics program those sorts of people are involved with), then get what you can from the team, and celebrate its short lived existence.
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Unread 08-08-2018, 12:47 PM
backflippingcat backflippingcat is offline
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Re: Sustaining a Team

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Originally Posted by Akash Rastogi View Post
That's coming from the perspective of a student who will not have to run the team after you have graduated.

Unless you can find an adult mentor who will champion your cause and can gather other adults around them, the team will not be sustainable.
Correct, I won't be running the team after my graduation and recognize that a mentor who is there to help the team grow is crucial. Which is why I'm hoping in the two years before I graduate we can figure something out or find someone willing to do so.

Perhaps I should restate my original question to more reflect what I'm trying to get at: how does a team find a dedicated coach/mentor/workspace with interest in helping the team grow long-term?

Last edited by backflippingcat : 08-08-2018 at 12:55 PM.
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Unread 08-08-2018, 12:52 PM
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Re: Sustaining a Team

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Stratis View Post
... For the OP... it sounds to me like you need to first identify someone that wants to keep the team going after you're gone. If there isn't anyone (a school, younger students, a mentor), then there's no point in building a sustaining structure for the team. I would focus on recruitment more than anything right now - recruiting mentors, recruiting new students, and recruiting sponsors. That's where you'll find the people that want the team to continue after you're gone, and they'll be key to helping you create the structure you need to ensure it continues. If those people just don't exist (which they may not, if there's a competing robotics program those sorts of people are involved with), then get what you can from the team, and celebrate its short lived existence.
Jon has hit the nail on the head. Gus has provided a comprehensive list of issues your team must address to be sustainable.

There is no shame in starting a team that exists for a short time. Many, especially in Texas, only last for a few years. You and your teammates have demonstrated a lot of courage, initiative and persistence to do what you have done so far and it was a pleasure to work with you when inspecting your robot. Your team was doing quite well at the Houston area events I saw you at. I am sure you all have learned much more than if you did many other easier things. A short-lived team where people learn is more in keeping with the purpose of this program than one that is around for a long time but no one learns anything.


I do hope to see large Googly Eyes at many Texas events in the future :-)

Last edited by philso : 08-08-2018 at 01:26 PM.
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Unread 08-08-2018, 01:00 PM
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Sustaining a Team

This is a great post. I have taken over 4130 with one year as a mentor with a recent graduated senior as co-lead. There hasn’t been a teacher as a lead mentor on the team for some time. Coming off being a world finalist with myself being the only returning full time mentor is going to be a challenge. A majority of the team has graduated leaving very few with experience on the team. We have done very similar things as posted. We have continued meetings throughout the summer in regards to sponsors, business, and filling in the gaps from the graduated students. We are hoping we can continue where we left off. I hope you find somebody as wiling as you to take charge of the team before you graduate. I can only imagine how much you have learned from being a lead at such a young age. It only takes one parent to step up.


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Last edited by Johnny 4130 : 08-08-2018 at 01:05 PM.
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Unread 08-08-2018, 01:03 PM
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Re: Sustaining a Team

Quote:
Originally Posted by backflippingcat View Post
Correct, I won't be running the team after my graduation, which is why I'm hoping in the two years before that we can work out some kind of solution.

Perhaps I should restate my original question: how does a team find a dedicated coach/mentor and workspace so that they can continue?
Now this is the most challenging part. Running a team and championing a cause takes a special kind of person.

I firmly believe that the best lead mentors and advisors come from sports teams, community coaches, small business owners, and people who are already involved in other community programs. The tough part here will be that you want someone who is passionate about another cause, but their other cause does not interfere with the FRC seasons, or their cause is already part of their full time job.

What you can do:
Create documentation about the current state of your team. This includes a full contact list for all sponsors, donation amounts, etc. Include things like team structure. Document literally as much as you can right now.

Then, create something similar to a job posting. You should have a description that is well thought out and does not sugar coat the responsibilities of an adult leader.

Create a list of organizations local to you who might have a vested interest in kids in STEM, or community outreach.

Reach out to your current sponsors and potential sponsors to see if any of them have adults who might be interested in leading a team.

Basically, create as much information as possible for the prospective leadership. If you can create a team sustainability plan now, you can help a future leader execute it.

This would be a good start.
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