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Unread 05-08-2018, 09:14 AM
MaxLi7 MaxLi7 is offline
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SOS - Custom Versachassis 6-wheel WCD (mechanical, electrical, pneumatic, etc.)

Greetings from 1246.

Comrades, how to chassis? We're looking to design a standardized custom WCD for future seasons to increase build and design time for point-scoring elements of games. However, I'm quite new to versachassis and there's a few things I'm not sure about.

The current tentative design uses 1x2 versaframe, versablocks, 1/2" hex shaft, #35 sprocket and chain, and Versa's 3 CIM BS. Hopefully, you guys can help answer a few questions.

(1) for a rear-powered drivetrain, how are versablocks and the BS in WCD configuration attached? I've seen guides where the gearbox is attached to a versablock half when its the centre wheel powered. But I can't see how a WCP cam can fit on a rear-mounted gearbox.

(2) We're considering using the Viair 90 compressor. How should a fan be mounted to cool the onboard compressor?

(3) Related to (2), how close can a hot compressor be mounted to electricals? We'd like to minimize the space that electricals and pneumatics take up on the robot.

Thanks, friends!

P.s., this is my first new thread on Chief, so go easy on me xD
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Unread 05-08-2018, 09:24 AM
MaxLi7 MaxLi7 is offline
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Re: SOS - Custom Versachassis 6-wheel WCD (mechanical, electrical, pneumatic, etc.)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WCG...ew?usp=sharing

Here's what I have so far in ye ol' Fusion "2pi".
(There's gotta be a better way of posting images.)
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Unread 05-08-2018, 09:31 AM
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Re: SOS - Custom Versachassis 6-wheel WCD (mechanical, electrical, pneumatic, etc.)

1) You should never need a cam the gearbox unless I am missing something. Cams should only ever be used on the wheels/blocks that have chains running to them from the gearbox. Vexpro should have a couple of very good examples on their website for you to follow.

2) Fans generally are unessesarry on your compressor. Unless you are running them for hours at a time during practice (don’t recommend that) a fan will generally not have that big of an impact to keep it cool. When practicing I would recommend more tanks/off board shop compressor to fill up your air every time you change your battery. This year we ran with no compressor on our robot and were very happy with how it.
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Unread 05-08-2018, 09:38 AM
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Re: SOS - Custom Versachassis 6-wheel WCD (mechanical, electrical, pneumatic, etc.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxLi7 View Post
(1) for a rear-powered drivetrain, how are versablocks and the BS in WCD configuration attached? I've seen guides where the gearbox is attached to a versablock half when its the centre wheel powered. But I can't see how a WCP cam can fit on a rear-mounted gearbox.
Mounting your gearbox in the back adds the interesting challenge of tensioning differently than mounting it in the center. You really want to rigidly mount your gearbox and then add a tensioner to the middle and front chain runs. Tensioning the middle wheel then become weird because your back-middle chain run is pulling opposite of your middle-front chain run.

We got around this by simply running chain from the back (gearbox) to the middle, and another from the back (gearbox) all the way to the front. Then we just cams on the middle and front wheels. It is some extra added weight but was worth it in our opinion. Plus, in your setup the single chain running from the gearbox to the middle wheel is a single point of failure and has the load for both the front and middle wheel.
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Unread 05-08-2018, 09:40 AM
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Re: SOS - Custom Versachassis 6-wheel WCD (mechanical, electrical, pneumatic, etc.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cash4587 View Post
1) You should never need a cam the gearbox unless I am missing something. Cams should only ever be used on the wheels/blocks that have chains running to them from the gearbox. Vexpro should have a couple of very good examples on their website for you to follow.

2) Fans generally are unessesarry on your compressor. Unless you are running them for hours at a time during practice (donít recommend that) a fan will generally not have that big of an impact to keep it cool. When practicing I would recommend more tanks/off board shop compressor to fill up your air every time you change your battery. This year we ran with no compressor on our robot and were very happy with how it.
Wow-wows! First response! Thanks!

1) How would the BS gearbox be mounted then? Bolted directly to versaframe w/o versa half?

2) I've heard around chief that the viair compressors get hot fast w/o a fan. Off-board tanks isn't really an option for our team because (a) we have no experience with them, and (b) adds a potential point of failure. fyi, we are currently using Thomas compressors, but they do take up a lot of space, so the switch is enticing.
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Unread 05-08-2018, 09:41 AM
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Re: SOS - Custom Versachassis 6-wheel WCD (mechanical, electrical, pneumatic, etc.)

If you are doing a WCD then the 3 Cim bs has a plate on the 3rd stage that will accept the versablock (217-3432) or the regular flange bearing block (217-3634) as long as you make provisions for it when you mill the tubing. Our team has used both types over the years and I think we prefer the regular flanged bearing block because it goes through the tube and provides support for the weight of 3 cims plus the gearbox. The gearbox does not need a cam so no worries on that because you will tension the wheel side versa block even on a rear mounted gearbox. I will attach a hole pattern and section view photo showing our robot this year with a WCD bearing block style so you can see it in the frame. Hopefully that helps answer that question.

For the compressor, you might want to create a little sheet metal housing for the fan and make it tunnel the air towards the heatsink of the compressor.
Attached Thumbnails
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Name:	hole pattern for WCP WCD.JPG
Views:	126
Size:	19.4 KB
ID:	23396  Click image for larger version

Name:	WCD Section View.JPG
Views:	196
Size:	105.2 KB
ID:	23397  
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Unread 05-08-2018, 09:42 AM
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Re: SOS - Custom Versachassis 6-wheel WCD (mechanical, electrical, pneumatic, etc.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monochron View Post
Mounting your gearbox in the back adds the interesting challenge of tensioning differently than mounting it in the center. You really want to rigidly mount your gearbox and then add a tensioner to the middle and front chain runs. Tensioning the middle wheel then become weird because your back-middle chain run is pulling opposite of your middle-front chain run.

We got around this by simply running chain from the back (gearbox) to the middle, and another from the back (gearbox) all the way to the front. Then we just cams on the middle and front wheels. It is some extra added weight but was worth it in our opinion. Plus, in your setup the single chain running from the gearbox to the middle wheel is a single point of failure and has the load for both the front and middle wheel.
Interesting. How did you guys mount the chains? 1 on one side of the frame, and the other or the other side?
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Unread 05-08-2018, 09:49 AM
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Re: SOS - Custom Versachassis 6-wheel WCD (mechanical, electrical, pneumatic, etc.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by OccamzRazor View Post
If you are doing a WCD then the 3 Cim bs has a plate on the 3rd stage that will accept the versablock (217-3432) or the regular flange bearing block (217-3634) as long as you make provisions for it when you mill the tubing. Our team has used both types over the years and I think we prefer the regular flanged bearing block because it goes through the tube and provides support for the weight of 3 cims plus the gearbox. The gearbox does not need a cam so no worries on that because you will tension the wheel side versa block even on a rear mounted gearbox. I will attach a hole pattern and section view photo showing our robot this year with a WCD bearing block style so you can see it in the frame. Hopefully that helps answer that question.

For the compressor, you might want to create a little sheet metal housing for the fan and make it tunnel the air towards the heatsink of the compressor.
Cool! Thanks for the images! How would something similar be done with a versablock? I wonder if it would reduce the machining work required.
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Unread 05-08-2018, 09:52 AM
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Re: SOS - Custom Versachassis 6-wheel WCD (mechanical, electrical, pneumatic, etc.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxLi7 View Post
Wow-wows! First response! Thanks!

1) How would the BS gearbox be mounted then? Bolted directly to versaframe w/o versa half?

2) I've heard around chief that the viair compressors get hot fast w/o a fan. Off-board tanks isn't really an option for our team because (a) we have no experience with them, and (b) adds a potential point of failure. fyi, we are currently using Thomas compressors, but they do take up a lot of space, so the switch is enticing.
Check out this guide from Vex:
https://content.vexrobotics.com/vexp...7-8000-6WD.pdf

You should be mounting the gearbox the exact same way, regardless of where it's being mounted. The cam's go on the other bearing blocks. My team ran a 8-wheel versachasis setup this year, with the gearbox on one of the middle wheels. We used the WCP DS, so mounting was a little different.

Perhaps the issue you would be concerned about is the bearing on the gearbox blocks shifting forward without a cam in place. You could solve that with a simple bolt into the chassis to provide a stop on the bearing block.
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Unread 05-08-2018, 10:00 AM
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Re: SOS - Custom Versachassis 6-wheel WCD (mechanical, electrical, pneumatic, etc.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxLi7 View Post
Cool! Thanks for the images! How would something similar be done with a versablock? I wonder if it would reduce the machining work required.
With the versablock, you do the same thing but the middle hole is small enough for the hex shaft instead of the 1.5 inch hole you use on the bearing block style. We had a mistake on our practice bot and ended up using the versa block to realign the gearbox to the correct location (hole was drilled off center).

You will want to make sure you fasten it well enough that it does not slide. It has the same hole pattern but watch which orientation you are attaching the versa to because it can be upside down and throw you off by .125". I attached that image too if you wanted to see the clearance difference. They have the same hole pattern for most of their products.
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Views:	146
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Unread 05-08-2018, 10:04 AM
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Re: SOS - Custom Versachassis 6-wheel WCD (mechanical, electrical, pneumatic, etc.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Stratis View Post
Check out this guide from Vex:
https://content.vexrobotics.com/vexp...7-8000-6WD.pdf

You should be mounting the gearbox the exact same way, regardless of where it's being mounted. The cam's go on the other bearing blocks. My team ran a 8-wheel versachasis setup this year, with the gearbox on one of the middle wheels. We used the WCP DS, so mounting was a little different.

Perhaps the issue you would be concerned about is the bearing on the gearbox blocks shifting forward without a cam in place. You could solve that with a simple bolt into the chassis to provide a stop on the bearing block.
Are suggesting putting in a bolt through this hole and through the versaframe, f.e.? https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Zd1...ew?usp=sharing
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Unread 05-08-2018, 10:08 AM
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Re: SOS - Custom Versachassis 6-wheel WCD (mechanical, electrical, pneumatic, etc.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by OccamzRazor View Post
With the versablock, you do the same thing but the middle hole is small enough for the hex shaft instead of the 1.5 inch hole you use on the bearing block style. We had a mistake on our practice bot and ended up using the versa block to realign the gearbox to the correct location (hole was drilled off center).

You will want to make sure you fasten it well enough that it does not slide. It has the same hole pattern but watch which orientation you are attaching the versa to because it can be upside down and throw you off by .125". I attached that image too if you wanted to see the clearance difference. They have the same hole pattern for most of their products.
Enlightening. I wonder if I can get away with one bolt instead of 2.
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Unread 05-08-2018, 10:17 AM
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Re: SOS - Custom Versachassis 6-wheel WCD (mechanical, electrical, pneumatic, etc.)

I would run the gearbox bolts through the frame on the 2 sides where the plate standoffs mount, the two that go through the versablock and frame connect to the plate so that makes 4 bolts, and if you want to run 3 cims then I would run the other ones as well through the frame and into the gearbox plate for 6 total if you felt you needed the strength. 4 is the minimum.
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Unread 05-08-2018, 10:32 AM
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Re: SOS - Custom Versachassis 6-wheel WCD (mechanical, electrical, pneumatic, etc.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxLi7 View Post
Interesting. How did you guys mount the chains? 1 on one side of the frame, and the other or the other side?
Nope, just side-by-side. The BS is made to fit two sprockets regardless (if mounted in the center one chain run goes back and one goes forward) so it all fit just fine. Used hex spacers to keep the sprockets properly spaced on the shafts.
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Unread 05-08-2018, 11:21 AM
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Re: SOS - Custom Versachassis 6-wheel WCD (mechanical, electrical, pneumatic, etc.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monochron View Post
Nope, just side-by-side. The BS is made to fit two sprockets regardless (if mounted in the center one chain run goes back and one goes forward) so it all fit just fine. Used hex spacers to keep the sprockets properly spaced on the shafts.
Nice! That helps. I'm curious, what is the distance between your wheels in your design? I have a 10" horizontal (excludes the 1/8" drop) distance between the wheel axles. That allows for between 66 and 65 #35 links on 12t sprockets, which I think should be fine with tensioners. I don't know how 10" wheel pitch drives. Feedback?
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