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Unread 03-13-2018, 08:42 AM
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deCIMate and Cim Sport Gearboxes

Hey Guys,
I am trying to use a deCIMate gearbox attached to a Banebots 16:1 Cimsport gearbox. As the deCIMate has the same output shaft size as a Cim I would expect this to work with no trouble. We are however running into trouble with the press fit pinion of the Cimsport slipping on the shaft of the deCIMate. Any suggestions? We have already tried both shimming the pinion and hammering flat spots onto the shaft. Thanks in advance for your help
-Jacob
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Unread 03-13-2018, 01:24 PM
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Re: deCIMate and Cim Sport Gearboxes

Sounds like either the pinion or the gearbox is out of spec. Measure both- if it's the pinion, maybe you can just buy a couple more pinions.

Can you weld the pinion on?

You can also try to get the 16:1 reduction in another way. Since the decimate mounts like a CIM, you can use a versaplanetary with CIM input. You can also change the rest of your system to get 16:1 some other way.
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Unread 03-13-2018, 01:28 PM
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Re: deCIMate and Cim Sport Gearboxes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chak View Post
You can also try to get the 16:1 reduction in another way. Since the decimate mounts like a CIM, you can use a versaplanetary with CIM input. You can also change the rest of your system to get 16:1 some other way.
Alternatively, you could also just use a VersaPlanetary Dual Motor Input and just do your entire reduction with a VersaPlanetary. Should save quite a bit of weight too.
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Unread 03-13-2018, 01:32 PM
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Re: deCIMate and Cim Sport Gearboxes

If you are planning to use 2 775 series motors in a planetary gearbox, you could just use the Versaplanetary Dual Input with 7:1 and 9:1 versaplanetary stages for an overall ratio of 63:1. However this solution will be likely less robust than a CIM sport and deCIMate.

Edit: sniped
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Unread 03-13-2018, 04:27 PM
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Re: deCIMate and Cim Sport Gearboxes

We needed to knurl the shaft, once we did that it worked.
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Unread 03-13-2018, 05:22 PM
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Re: deCIMate and Cim Sport Gearboxes

I would extremely advise not using the dual input VP. Ive heard nothing but bad things from it, from all the teams I have asked who used them, even in 2017 when the load was low for shooter, they still stripped.

We used the CIM sports this year (12:1) and I did notice the pressfit wasnt as tight as I would have expected, although there has been no issue so far. Have you been able to measure the output shaft of the DeCimate?
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Unread 03-13-2018, 05:38 PM
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Re: deCIMate and Cim Sport Gearboxes

The dual input versa is not a horrible product. However it is not a great one. It's actually made a little on the light side and tightening the fasteners a bit to much can cause it to deform. That said, once we figured out it's tricks we rant one all year on our 2016 shooter. Now we will always get a decimate. They are bulletproof.
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Unread 03-14-2018, 02:18 AM
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Re: deCIMate and Cim Sport Gearboxes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian M View Post
I would extremely advise not using the dual input VP. Ive heard nothing but bad things from it, from all the teams I have asked who used them, even in 2017 when the load was low for shooter, they still stripped.

We used the CIM sports this year (12:1) and I did notice the pressfit wasnt as tight as I would have expected, although there has been no issue so far. Have you been able to measure the output shaft of the DeCimate?
IMO, I've used them for shooters a few times over the years and never run into any issues, you just have to make sure they're properly lubricated (use red tacky, it stays on the gears better than regular white lithium). In fact the only time I've had issues with any Versaplanetary configuration has been using the 10:1 gear sets, particularly when assembled with a 10:1 stage closest to the output shaft (stupid mistake on my part).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Line View Post
...Now we will always get a decimate. They are bulletproof.
With the amount of metal required to get them down to the right ratio (assuming you're not doing a direct replacement for a CIM anyways), I would certainly believe that... literally and metaphorically.

I guess if you've got the weight for it though, whatever works for you.
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Unread 03-14-2018, 09:13 AM
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Re: deCIMate and Cim Sport Gearboxes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian M View Post
I would extremely advise not using the dual input VP. Ive heard nothing but bad things from it, from all the teams I have asked who used them, even in 2017 when the load was low for shooter, they still stripped.

We used the CIM sports this year (12:1) and I did notice the pressfit wasnt as tight as I would have expected, although there has been no issue so far. Have you been able to measure the output shaft of the DeCimate?
Yes, the shaft is just too small for the press fit, it wasn't only the case for one deCIMate either, we've tried at least 2 different shafts and pinions with no better results. We did end up welding the pinion straight onto the shaft with no filler which worked like a charm. It would, however, be nice to have the ability to fully disassemble the deCIMate gearbox if ever need be. The welding seems like a workaround, not a solution but it still does seem like the most robust way to guarantee good torque transfer.
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Unread 03-15-2018, 06:42 PM
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Re: deCIMate and Cim Sport Gearboxes

Decimate: .45 lbs

Versa base + output + 1 ring gear =.54 lbs.
Add a dual input and a decimate wins by even more.

In fact, if Andy Mark offered the vex planetary spline as an output I'd be in total love.

Last edited by Tom Line : 03-15-2018 at 06:52 PM.
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Unread 03-15-2018, 07:26 PM
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Re: deCIMate and Cim Sport Gearboxes

Tom,
You donít use an input stage when you use the dual input with the VP.
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Unread 03-15-2018, 10:13 PM
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Re: deCIMate and Cim Sport Gearboxes

Doh! Thanks Paul. So the weights are pretty comparable really. I'm happy having both solutions.
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Unread 03-16-2018, 08:55 AM
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Re: deCIMate and Cim Sport Gearboxes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Line View Post
Doh! Thanks Paul. So the weights are pretty comparable really. I'm happy having both solutions.
Keep in mind this is only true if the target motor output speed is that of a CIM, if you have to add an additional gearbox to a DeCIMate (like a CIM Sport) those numbers get a lot worse. The Versaplanetary has the advantage that you can do basically all of your reduction in a single gearbox (assuming it can handle the load).
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Unread 03-20-2018, 08:06 PM
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Re: deCIMate and Cim Sport Gearboxes

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Originally Posted by Brian M View Post
I would extremely advise not using the dual input VP. Ive heard nothing but bad things from it, from all the teams I have asked who used them, even in 2017 when the load was low for shooter, they still stripped.
We used the VP dual input with bag motors this year on our winch, total reduction 114.75:1. Engineered to lift the robot, but currently only running the Power Cube lift at 50-60lbs of load, no problems so far. Completed FIM Southfield, FIM Lincoln, and 10+ hours of practicing and testing. No idea how it would hold up if it were being subjected to the climbing load every match though.
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