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Unread 02-12-2018, 08:58 PM
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I think we fried our Rio.

So, the struggle started with connecting talons. We had 3 old ones from 2014(I think), we used one new one. It was all connected properly, I updated firmware on it. But, when we turned on the robot and tried to drive, one wire going to a motor started burning. This is when the issues got real.

We fixed up that wire, but the motors wouldn't move except for the occasionally full turn on one side and some stuttering. The driver station was not throwing any errors. This was a version of the code that had previously worked so we knew it wasn't that. The new talon wires were heating up but we decided that we were gonna keep it on to troubleshoot more.

The Rio went into brownout protection. We tried resetting the rio with the reset button but that didn't work. I went to re-image it, but I needed to update firmware which worked. But, whenever I went to image it, the imaging tool would throw error code likehttps://drive.google.com/open?id=1Bi...0OSiAAME2ibQJU. Another error which I couldn't get a pic of was about an error in restarting, with the same general format.

So, what did we fry? Is there anything we can do?
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Unread 02-12-2018, 09:18 PM
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Re: I think we fried our Rio.

You might want to read this.
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Unread 02-12-2018, 09:25 PM
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Re: I think we fried our Rio.

How did you wire in your talons and motors? Can you provide a picture?

It sounds like you might have plugged in your speed controllers the wrong way.
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Unread 02-12-2018, 09:26 PM
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Re: I think we fried our Rio.

Um... I'd start with being concerned about your electrical system. Which wire caught on fire (where between the PDP and the motor? before or after the talon), why did it catch on fire, did that affect anything else? You say that the wires on the new Talon were heating up- which wires (PDP->Talon or Talon->Motor) and by how much? Have you tried removing this talon from the system? Are you connected over CAN or PWM?

Wires catching on fire is not normal behavior. I would probably investigate the whole "fire and hot wires" issue before you go any further. This is also probably why you're going into brownout mode.
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Unread 02-12-2018, 09:43 PM
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Re: I think we fried our Rio.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nickbrickmaster View Post
Um... I'd start with being concerned about your electrical system. Which wire caught on fire (where between the PDP and the motor? before or after the talon), why did it catch on fire, did that affect anything else? You say that the wires on the new Talon were heating up- which wires (PDP->Talon or Talon->Motor) and by how much? Have you tried removing this talon from the system? Are you connected over CAN or PWM?

Wires catching on fire is not normal behavior. I would probably investigate the whole "fire and hot wires" issue before you go any further. This is also probably why you're going into brownout mode.
The wire that caught fire was Talon to Motor, it was because somehow the wire got cut while inside the insulation. We fixed that.

If I remember correctly it was PDP to Talon. We are connected via CAN. We will try removing the talon from the system tomorrow.
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Unread 02-12-2018, 09:59 PM
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Re: I think we fried our Rio.

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Originally Posted by Something_ View Post
So, what did we fry? Is there anything we can do?
Post a picture of your setup here. Likely the outcome is that you've got a learning opportunity.
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Unread 02-13-2018, 10:05 AM
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Re: I think we fried our Rio.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Something_ View Post
The wire that caught fire was Talon to Motor, it was because somehow the wire got cut while inside the insulation. We fixed that.

If I remember correctly it was PDP to Talon. We are connected via CAN. We will try removing the talon from the system tomorrow.
The failure mode you described doesn't make sense. Maybe something is missing.

I would strongly suggest that you ask one of the many established teams in the Toronto area to have a detailed look over the wiring in your robot. It is quite likely that there are other wiring errors. This might also be a good opportunity to ask them to give your team some training about how to do the wiring construction.
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Unread 02-13-2018, 11:00 AM
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Re: I think we fried our Rio.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HcC...ew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/16hY...ew?usp=sharing
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Unread 02-13-2018, 02:08 PM
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Re: I think we fried our Rio.

Unfortunately, your photos do not show the wiring between each motor controller and motor very clearly or completely. It might be better if you grouped the wire pairs to each motor so they are more obvious.

I am going to reiterate my suggestion that you find one of the other local teams to help you go through your wiring. Those of us on the forum can only help in a limited way since we cannot put our hands on your robot.

You are about 1 week away from bag and tag. You do not want to be trying to fix your problem at your competitions. Dedicate some time now to fix them now i.e. your team should not be expecting to drive the robot or doing any more construction until this is fixed. Your team will need to work through all of the troubleshooting steps in a methodical way. It is quite possible that you have more than one (type) of problem. If you rush through the troubleshooting, you are likely to miss a fault and it will show up at your competitions.

Take the wiring diagram and follow each and every wire through, one at a time, and fix any errors you find. They symptoms in your first post suggest that you might have at least one pair of motors fighting each other.

Support the chassis using blocks of wood so none of the wheels touch the floor or table.

Disconnect all four drive motors from their motor controllers. Running like this should not cause any brownouts. If it does, go through your wiring again.

Spin the wheels by hand. If there is too much resistance or one side has more resistance than the other, you need to investigate what is going on. Either the gearboxes are assembled incorrectly or some of your axle bolts may have been over tightened.

Connect one of the four drive motors. Always connect the red wire to the "+" output of the motor controllers. Use your driver controls to command the robot to go forward. Note which way the wheel turns. Disconnect that motor and connect the other motor on the same side. Use your driver controls to command the robot to go forward. Note which way the wheel turns. The wheel should turn the same way with each of the motors connected, one at a time. If the wheels rotate in opposite directions, you will need to reverse the direction of one of the motor controllers in your software. Repeat this for the other side of your chassis.

Did you replace the output wires on one of the motor controllers? I am not sure if that is legal.

Please report your findings here.
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Unread 02-13-2018, 02:08 PM
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Re: I think we fried our Rio.

Looks like you're mounting on aluminum, did you check for shorts or If either positive or negative is grounded into your board?
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Unread 02-13-2018, 02:24 PM
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Re: I think we fried our Rio.

Check the motors one at a time, disconnecting the unused ones from the motor controller.

Did you fix the "burnt" wire with the electrical tape? If the insulation is gone, the copper probably isnt so great either. Try to replace the MC with a different one.

Fix the (-)wire going into the rio, make sure there is no copper exposed.


Once again though, it is difficult to troubleshoot without being there, next step would be removing items until the problem goes away so see where the fault lies.
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Unread 02-13-2018, 06:18 PM
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Re: I think we fried our Rio.

Quote:
Originally Posted by philso View Post
Unfortunately, your photos do not show the wiring between each motor controller and motor very clearly or completely. It might be better if you grouped the wire pairs to each motor so they are more obvious.

I am going to reiterate my suggestion that you find one of the other local teams to help you go through your wiring. Those of us on the forum can only help in a limited way since we cannot put our hands on your robot.

We have a team(1241) that has helped us in previous seasons so we will ask them for help.


Quote:
Originally Posted by philso View Post
You are about 1 week away from bag and tag. You do not want to be trying to fix your problem at your competitions. Dedicate some time now to fix them now i.e. your team should not be expecting to drive the robot or doing any more construction until this is fixed. Your team will need to work through all of the troubleshooting steps in a methodical way. It is quite possible that you have more than one (type) of problem. If you rush through the troubleshooting, you are likely to miss a fault and it will show up at your competitions.

Sorry, I forgot to mention that this is an alternative bot, which will not be used in comps. So, we are going to be using it as a practice robot and can work on it after the build season is over. We are not gonna be working on it often for this week but will try to get it working before comps.


Quote:
Originally Posted by philso View Post
Take the wiring diagram and follow each and every wire through, one at a time, and fix any errors you find. They symptoms in your first post suggest that you might have at least one pair of motors fighting each other.

Disconnect all four drive motors from their motor controllers. Running like this should not cause any brownouts. If it does, go through your wiring again.

Spin the wheels by hand. If there is too much resistance or one side has more resistance than the other, you need to investigate what is going on. Either the gearboxes are assembled incorrectly or some of your axle bolts may have been over tightened.

Connect one of the four drive motors. Always connect the red wire to the "+" output of the motor controllers. Use your driver controls to command the robot to go forward. Note which way the wheel turns. Disconnect that motor and connect the other motor on the same side. Use your driver controls to command the robot to go forward. Note which way the wheel turns. The wheel should turn the same way with each of the motors connected, one at a time. If the wheels rotate in opposite directions, you will need to reverse the direction of one of the motor controllers in your software. Repeat this for the other side of your chassis.

Once build season is over we will be working with these suggestions. Thanks.


Quote:
Originally Posted by philso View Post
Did you replace the output wires on one of the motor controllers? I am not sure if that is legal.
I would not know because I mainly program but I doubt that we did.

Thank you for all your advice
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